>> Give everybody a little heads up if you plan to speak
on any item on the consent agenda today, their forms out
in the lobby, the yellow form is what you want to fill out if
you want to speak on item on the consent agenda and the
green form is what you fill out. If you just want to have
your comments submitted for the record all say that again,
but since we have some time and you'll have some time during
presentations this morning. If you want to do that before
we get to the consent agenda that these
officiant
we'll cover this.
Commissioner her has just advised me that she has 9 '02,
I'm looking at the clock of the law clock on the wall that
appears to have just struck 9. So I'm going to commissioners 9
'02 and say we're starting late so.
Thank you all so much for being here today like to cause or to
the Seminole County Board of County commissioners meeting of
October 10th.
You'll see that commissioner dallari is not with us this
morning. He will be with us this afternoon. Today we have
joining us to lead us in the invocation of start our meeting
pastor, Mel horn. If you would please all rise.
Good morning. Everyone, let's pray.
>> All right, Ian on merciful God, you are Lord of all
nations and we pray for peace among the nation's we
especially pray today for the peace of Israel. We thank you
father that you have placed us in a land where where we can
elect their leaders and we're grateful for those who have
stepped forward to guide our County. There are many issues
before them today finances and the care of the needy and
zoning and even better there's and so Lord we would ask you to
give them wisdom and we ask you bless them their families.
All the employees of this County and all who are so
pleased this to make this their home all we pray in the name of
Jesus. Amen I pledge of allegiance. I played. States of
America and to stands one nation under God indivisible
with liberty and justice for all.
>> Thank you so much pastor, Mel harm. We appreciate you
leading us and starting us in prayer this morning.
First presentation is going to be led by Christina brand
Illini we have some employees we want to recognize today.
>> And madam chairman I could start off by saying we're
excited about recognizing our employees but it all the
commissioners could join me down on the floor and what
we're going to go through these one by one should take this to
on this morning and then we'll come back up and running.
Look at the Texas state fair.
For you this is.
>> Good morning. Chairman commissioners Christina
bringing the human resources director I'll try to talk to my
car fast. This morning, I have the pleasure of recognizing
several employees for their years of service to Seminole
County we are going to start with Sherry Brown who has 20
years of service and John trash cannot come over here on behalf
of Jerry Brown.
We'll say a few words and then we'll have some pictures.
>> Good morning from the age of 2 of the quote that the county
engineer.
Okay, shouldn't do it today so busy putting its own services.
Sherrod Brown began to Seminole County on August one. 2003 was
0 to start the division has it that every staff assistant she
was effective for their status to put over the status on 7 to
10 2004.
She was promoted to customer service rep on 10/1/2005 6.
She eventually you know it is a position of senior staff
assistant on July 30 years.
2015 and hold that position for for little over 70 years she
developed a good working relationships throughout the
county. And this is why do you know put a hood friendly and
helpful ways.
She is away with it to go above and beyond who have been at the
forefront of our party
was essentially
essential to the operation of 0 to sow Division. I feel that
December of 2022.
When she accepted the position of citizen engagement to
supervisor who is from mission services.
In July says it should become commissioner do a lot of this
stuff is active assistant.
>> Next we have like tennis team leader with public works
and he has 25 years.
>> Wow that is a go by and then back again. He's clearly it was
similar County. Stormwater division on September 2119 98.
As it makes us where he was promoted to crew chief and 1999
and working with the bull district where the heat of the
fire because scale and concrete well as the operation of heavy
equipment
and 2017 he moved to store more operation as equipment operator
too and subsequent to achieve his current position of the
Monday, those and 2021.
He is known for big state forward working and it is high
disco equipment operator of a fierce provides it.
After that a man and his team located there previously,
and you know all 4 assists that might enable to push. The store
flow was provided to believe it or not but all of Lake for
president
Pieper system is persistent. A lot of them to completely
block the system today had. But again the cost of goods in
this country.
>> Next we have a looking for him or her and myself.
Oh I'm sorry I was like I know these are so keep in mind that
will come up and we will recognize just a few meters
services supervisor with environmental also 25 years of
service.
So Joe story, I'm sorry Jim Warren burger Seminole County
service district, you're sorry. Joe started his career year
here on August 1719 98 and has worked in environmental
services Department for 25 years honing his experience in
customer service near services and team building he was
promoted to his current position as meter services
supervisor in 2012. Joe's well liked and respected by his
colleagues and his team.
He is passionate about advancing his own personal
growth and career here as he's currently pursuing a degree in
environmental sciences and we are very proud to have him as
part of our team.
Next we have Trisha Johnson who will be recognizing Melanie
cause assistant County manager with 25 years of service.
So Melanie has nearly 30 years of government experience and
she joins the Seminole County team in 1998 after a short for
in Orange County and then she thought better of it you can
too.
And she joined the team overseeing administrative
services Department then was permitted to to support support
services division.
She has read your bio Melanie is pretty much ever seen just
about every team in this County, so I won't go through
the entire list.
We've all had the opportunity to work with her very closely.
And when she was permitted in 2015 to assistant County
manager we often joke this because Melanie is where the
bodies are buried. But most importantly, Melanie is a great
colleague, a friend, a grandmother, a mother a wife.
She has brought so much value to this County over the years
she's been here and we're just very lucky to call the call her
a colleague and congratulate her and 25 years.
Next up we will have James princess and he will be
recognizing Melvin Barnes J as program manager to 30 years of
experience.
>> Good morning. Good morning. I had the pleasure of
recognizing a million Barnes a melody Barnes is a valued
employee is celebrating 30 years of service, I have
remember this after serving as a part-time student assistant
in the conference of plan and vision summit County known
began his career as a part-time graphics technician with the
Seminole County plan develop department 7/12/1993.
He suddenly it was promoted through the ranks as a planning
technician. A senior and a senior reporter there and to
his current role as gis program manager in 2005 he's been
instrumental in shepherding our geospatial community that we've
had we've come from individual departments, having it to now
the enterprise system that was instrumental in developing our
commuted dispatch system is used all over the county.
And all the automation that him and his team has done thanks to
his leadership. So again congratulations not been for 30
years.
>> Alan Harris will be recognizing Maureen Steinbach
customer service representative of animal services also 30
years of service.
>> To introduce to you. More Maureen has been with us since
8/23/1993.
Ironically one pay period between Carroll coma which will
be recognized next.
And so they they've been a great team. Maureen is a
mission started as a dispatcher but immediately pretty quickly
we moved to customer service. She's the person the answers,
the phones. She's the person greet. You when you come in the
door. What I love about Maureen I I walk in the lobby,
sometimes I walk in the back way sometimes and every time I
walk in the lobby. No matter what has happened owner
surrender. She's gotten a stray over the counter top no matter
what, there's a smile and she always says good morning good
afternoon to not just to me, but to the customer behind me,
she's a wonderful customer service, individual she loves
animals which we all do, but she just takes it to the next
level and it's just really my honor to work with you and
congratulations on 30 years.
>> Ali will also be recognizing Carole Coleman animal services
administrator with 30 years of service.
>> Started on September, the 7th one pay period as I
mentioned after more. Carol started as a technician that
take now is what we call it. In the back working with the
medical. For animals moved into an officer position became the
field service supervisor, which is over.
Arguably one of the most challenging positions in
Seminole County government. There's no matter what you do
either the dog is barking or you took the dog someone's
going to be angry at you. So as she did that pix with
extraordinary service and was promoted to division manager.
In 2016 along with me as the director and he's been a truly
an honor to work hand-in-hand with Carol. She also loves
animals we currently have a dog that she pretty much houses in
her office called tater looks like a baked potato. It's the
shelter dog if you will and she's she's just an incredible
animal lover and she. She is an incredible manager so Carol
congratulations. 30 years.
>> Those are all the ways we had.
In addition to those in attendance today we would also
like to recognize David Sneed drafting technician with public
works with 20 years of service, people Johnson network
administrator with information technology with 25 years of
service and Michael crews actively Tenet with the Fire
Department 25 years of service.
Thank you so much.
Mister gray that was a great great thing to add thank you to
our meeting we appreciate that thank you.
Our our next presentation is from Mister Mike Orlando from
the Florida Fish and Wildlife conservation Commission,
the pastor mentioned earlier that we pray for everything
here, including the Bears and so he kind of got you covered,
thank you we need it for sure.
>> Again, Mike Orlando. I am now the bear program
coordinator of the of a matching program for Florida
Fish and Wildlife. So isolation thank you get information and
in March, so I'm leading the entire state. Now which is busy
but one of the things that we do every single year. Thank you
is to come to the commission and give you guys an update and
this one is actually short thankfully because Seminole
County has been doing right off the bat, a fantastic job so get
right to it.
So if you can see we break up the state into regions for fwc
you guys are found in the North East region. You see the cause
of kind of stabilized over the last few years. Most of our
calls are general interactions at Jenner and action is I saw a
bear walking down the row, it was a bear up a tree during a
car into something along those lines.
And that the next part of the highest percentage there is in
garbage and of course that's what we've been talking about
for years and years now and will continue to talk about is
you know garbage and having at bears having access to garbage.
One of the things that really want to focus on today is years
ago. Seminole County used to be near the top of this. This
graph here that chart and you guys are number 7 now which is
absolutely astounding and you can see over the years, the
your your calls have somewhat stabilized but there's a
downward trend. Coming into the agency. There's no possible way
to go from number one or 2 to number 7 without putting a lot
of effort.
It comes in the form of your community is doing the right
thing keeping a track that's up from bears and again I talk
about there's but we're talking about all wild animals here.
Whether it's a wreck and spares K and these boxes. These all
all these other animals benefit from keeping attracting secure.
So you can see some of the county is a really fine down
the list and you guys are doing such a good job I can. Thank
you enough.
So in Seminole County general interaction again is the is the
highest thing that we have going on in garbage.
Really you know 64 calls coming into the agency in 2022,
not a huge, you know a a number some people forget.
But their garbage in the garage or forget to lock their can and
you know that happens you know we're human.
But if you notice, a you know going on down the list
everything is is manageable and the fwc is being very
responsive to the issues happening here in Seminole
County.
So this is a over the last 3 years you can see there's our
calls are coming in from the usual places. Ordinance area
obviously has a you know the most bears because that's right
up against what Kiowa Basin and that's where the most of the
Bears are.
You look at just the last year. We we break our calls from
court complaint, an encore complaints. I mean encore
complaint is exactly the their tree bearing walking down the
Arctic or complain is a very getting into my graphics went
into my garage ige or something a little bit more serious as
and try to attempt to get into my house or something along
those lines. And those are actionable things when we send
out somebody to go and do site visits or so on so forth so
so some of the ongoing topics that being said you guys are
doing such a good job of quest to have this throw in something
that we can focus on into the future.
But there are still a few businesses. That aren't
following the ordinance and of course we have our floor
administrative code, the rule that states intentionally or
unintentionally feeding bears is illegal. So our officers are
paying attention to those places well, but sometimes it
does help when the county does you know help us out and we do
work together and have on many occasions to try to get some
some of the businesses to start getting their very existence
dumpsters.
And we'll continue to work with the all of that. So the other
thing that has been a a bit of a challenge lately is those
various think garbage cans that we got out of the landscape.
Many years ago are getting old. These are pieces of machinery
that you know bears are rolling around the garbage trucks
aren't exactly easy on them either and the residents as
well. So these things are getting old so I wanted to
throw it out there put it in and the discussion that you
know there might be a time when we have a discussion by getting
new cans. As well as replacing some of the old cans and I know
that there's lots of work on how we get money for that,
you know you know how it's distributed and all that but I
definitely wanted to let you guys know that we're we're here
to try to navigate that with you there has been some
discussion about restarting that program that we used to
actually get those cans.
The legislative budget request that we that we asked 4 years
ago and it stopped.
I don't have an answer that's going to happen or not, but we
are discussing it again. Larry had a meeting yesterday
about starting that program up again so that that involves the
Legislature and I don't have any say over one day to say
yeah haha so we do have really a high number of females with
Cubs more than we've seen in a really long time just sort of
lingering in communities so one of the things I wanted to say
to the folks who are watching actually is if you do have
females with Cubs that are just kind of hanging out in these
communities, let us know about it we're not going to come out
there and kill her or do anything out but if we can do
something between doing nothing
having to euthanize the bear because she did something bad
we would like to step in in the middle, so don't be afraid to
call the agency we have many ways of hazing them maybe
trapping and hazing in releasing on site or because
the whole family to or doing nothing but teaching the folks
around the community to actually you know, you chase
them off themselves that sort of thing we don't want these
best comfortable in these communities.
We we we know that they're going to be there they walked
through its not unusual to have bears in these communities and
lots of people like that fact about Seminole County. But we
don't want to get too comfortable around people.
We did have one incident and no one of the communities where
her son was knocked down by there. And we did investigate
and work with the community on a figuring it all out and we
did have a female bear that I've seen most of you guys have
heard about the news that was shot and killed and we did an
investigation and and follow through on our and and that's
it.
>> Any questions for Mister land
because you're her and then commissioner Constantine.
>> I I do think there's a significant amount of
misinformation that's out in the community, particularly in
some of the social media outlets I would say next tours,
one of the major culprit. So I live in the very area
and the concept of hazing is perceived as negative and that
is a negative word. I would encourage you all to find a new
one. But but being a little less welcoming is in the Bears
best interest to us and that education needs to happen.
We do have. Moms and Cubs and they are different sets of them
that are literally roosting in the neighborhoods, they're
hanging out there just part of the crew the deer are doing it.
They have the deer of absolutely become domesticated
time that I've lived a day look at him and they'll come back at
the cars and now that that did not happen 10 years ago and the
Bears are following a very similar pattern. So I would
tell you that we need we need an uptick in education out
there before there's another incident
and then I would also tell you that there's been a recent
sighting of tripod in my side driveway and it he he's he's
also hanging out. Yeah. Now we're a little less fearful of
him because we think we can out run them and we're not sure of
that we're not sure that all of us can out run over my husband
is about that I can't
but but they have become very comfortable much more so I will
tell you that I had one that
this is 20 feet away from my from the House.
I've had one looking in the bedroom window between the
bushes and and literally scared to live in the G burr's out of
of somebody that was in the House.
But they are not fearful, I can make all the noise. I want I
can do all of the routine to the point that that there was
hanging out in those bushes. My husband is about to come
home. That's where the parks, the car he is not going to
notice that there I guarantee it so I pulled my car out of
the garage turned it around and beat the horn at it and I have
neighbors that were angry at me about that.
I wasn't going to run it over, but I need him not to be
comfortable 20 feet from the House that education is really
critical today. So whatever we can do I will be glad to
facilitated through the homeowners associations through
next door, we have to beef up that education degree because
because we are coming to a point where more incidents are
going to happen the population has grown considerably in the
neighborhood.
Yes, the absolute right thing they're all having Cubs and
it's that's all good stuff but you can't have them thinking
they live in the patios.
>> Couldn't agree more and you know that's why I mentioned in
the presentation, you know we're seeing that on our end as
well and it is kind of a conundrum that we have because
we have a lot of folks in communities who don't want us
to do anything with the Bears and of course you know where
the state we're not going to Colin with traps in your
community and without permission and start trapping
animals that's not how the how it works. So we do need
permission. We need buy-in from the communities in the buy-in
from the residents. You know frequently when we set a trap
for good intentions trying to you know we use the word haze
because not supposed to be nice. We are you know shooting
them being backgrounds and things. But you know we do try
to scare them off and get them to realize that humans are nice
and with people sabotaging our traps so it's a challenge.
And we we like the fact that people love theirs and they
want to care for us sometimes though you actually have to let
a step in the middle before something bad does happen and
then we're and up for us to do the worst part of our job which
is staff to kill bears and and so anyway, thanks for bringing
that up and we're absolutely on board with getting as much
education outreach that we can we can get done for sure so for
the record when you trap one do you kill it.
It is a public safety threat they broke into a house it
injured a person, yes, that is part of our policy we will get
we remove that they're from the population. If it's not if it's
just lingering if it's trying to you know getting into
garbage, you're doing something. We have the option
to catch and relocate we have the option to catch and release
on site with with you know these hazing techniques that we
use beanbag rounds paintball guns we've been using tasers
lately. So there's lots of in between especially if
something's happening where let's say bears getting into an
outside refrigerator, something like that we've been using
electric on welcome mats where you put them out in front of
the day. The guard inside the refrigerator and the bear was
up to the refrigerator steps on this electric fence essentially
that's on the ground it shots their paws and they run away
and they they just don't come back because who wants that you
know haha so so we've been trying to deploy all these
techniques to a bid to prevent things from happening. But
you're absolutely right allowing them to be really
comfortable in a neighborhood sets us up for failure and we
need to make sure that there's or not
comfortable around people.
>> So I would just tell you that I would
I don't want them to be comfortable in the neighborhood
that was the start of this. But the thought of you tazing
one reax me out it's a very a little less likely to call.
And so I would just say that we may want to rethink that the
notion of how this is communicated and what it is
we're doing. I realized that using a human Taser on a bear
that's 400 pounds that's an entirely different interactions
but most folks don't realize that by the way I don't have
all the hair that the bear has and all of that good stuff,
right Sir thank God. But that we we really have to be
cognizant of the fact that
we are freaking neighbors out with the idea of an electric
match we're going to
you know I can't push the bison buzzer on the electric dog
collar, my dogs are ill train because sure
let's just the fact that we have to be very clear
with how it is we're removing them with a very positive
message that you know we taste them, but we taste them at a
level that doesn't you are you tasting them and knocking him
out.
>> No. Since yeah, sure I mean you know these are techniques
that we use that are not intended to hurt these animals
long term for sure. I mean that's not the purpose of what
we do so, but we do have to actually do something strong
enough that they remember that people are not nice and I would
imagine if anybody in here get stays you're going to remember
that for a really long time shooting with beanbag round and
also you know yet these these are these are things that we're
doing to make sure the Bears understand that people are not
nice we don't want them to think that we're we're friends.
We we people can see them in the neighborhoods we want
people to appreciate bears in their neighborhoods.
And you know sometimes maybe the first time they've ever
seen a bear we want them to appreciate that we have to make
sure that they're respecting the boundaries that they are
wild animals in the end, I think you. Commissioner
Constantine.
>> Thank you Mike, thank you for your persistence because
we've been working on this together for a long time was
just 13 since 2013.
You know work very hard to get this the first urban bear
ordinance in the state of Florida and since that time the
cause of our success so many other communities have have
going but I didn't have con and adopted and work.
Couple of things do you know in your in your presentation and
I've recognize this through a number of the can individuals
and homeowners associations that have contacted me
when when are their cans ran out.
We had over still a 1000 requests
and including that we had a number of cans and as you
pointed out that are getting old. They're used they get on
those machines
folks a you know it's you
they they they have they have an expiration date and so
everything that you can do from the fwc ease
place to to revitalize and I'm sure it's going happening in
the other committee communities that have done this but provide
allies that there can
grant program I appreciated it also I went to the county
manager and I know that he might want to talk about that
that. They're looking at reinstituting that program from
our side of the spectrum because
as commissioner pointed out she lives in the Bay Area. Well,
you know we live in their neighborhood. They don't live
in ours we live in their as we've gone, we've.
We moved those homes and their many years ago and and and
folks the education program has worked but it needs to be
continue.
And
I just have to say that
you know they did
you know as we live in their neighborhood.
They and they start feeling more comfortable the move I
live about a half a mile away maybe a little bit more from
i-four
neighbors, they go by my house. In boats
came by with the other day and showed me a picture of a bear
that was less than 30 feet for me and I didn't even know that
I was up on the deck and he was down in the sand rolling
around. For whatever reason enjoying himself went back in
the woods because I have Woods right next to me one back in
the woods immediately.
So you know we do have to make them.
Appreciate fear if you will human contact because for in
their best interest
but but what you know, but at the same time they get to we
have to respect the fact that you know that we're the ones
that are causing the the the attraction
with the food, the bird seed and all those other things and
we need to continue that education process and continue
to get their cans into their hands, one thing I did here and
it was I think
suggested by County up north because of their the bear
population starting to grow in Franklin County and others and
we've been contacted by Franklin County commissioner by
the way who's asking how we did our program just recently
because they want to institute a about it, but they were also
some others were talking about hunt. Clearly this commission
has been opposed in the past 2.
Can you give starting the hunt again and you know because we
we feel we can do other things
without having to go and do the the worst case scenario.
So you know what what's the status on that.
So with the fwc.
>> Right so I can tell you that
at this time fwc is not discussing their kind
that at least at my level so and just surveyed as we are the
fishing and hunting agency for the state. So we do talk about
hunting things obviously we do not have any discussions
currently going on about their hunting.
And you know there are. But you know people are allowed to
discuss whether or not we should have a hunting season,
the future commissioners are the ones who make that decision
if we open their season in the future what I can tell you
though is
if we were to ever start. Another there kind we would do
it with the purpose, the only purpose essentially is to
reduce population growth,
we would not start and to expect that that's going to fix
our conflict problems. Places like Pennsylvania, North
Carolina they all had a you know they have large
populations of bears and they hunt bears and they still have
conflicts. So if so there's still a lot of people feed
their and they still people to feed bears and and yes, exactly
so. So we if if there is ever a discussion of their hunting it
would likely come in the form of trying to reduce population
growth and I and I'm not suggesting a bear hunt, but I
understand, but I am requesting the fact that I mean when you
look at it look at the various locations and where there are
problems change, I'm not necessarily be clear we're not
actually talking laying it out there how we do things and you
know I I talked to Rodney. Commissioner, Barrera you know
Brenda the other day about that and I just you know, I mean
obviously it's not something that I want but you know if
there's a problem somewhere else that doesn't mean that we
can that we have to have it here either that or nothing but
again whatever you can do to
reconstitute your program in with beer cans in grants.
I think I know for one and I think all of us we probably
agree that that was a great program and we would love to
tonight, I would like as well thank you very much again Mike
for everything you do from commissioner zembower thank you
Mike, what I didn't see and hear is.
>> Population growth of the species can can you speak to us
a little about that what the trend has been with the
population share.
>> So we do demographic studies around the state. Recently last
population, sorry demographic study was Apalachicola and we
found that it's roughly around 12% growth.
They're currently doing a demographic study down in big
Cypress, I don't have those numbers for you because we're
we're really at the tail end of that but the Ocala population
which you guys are in population growth is somewhere
or just above 2% so it actually is growing slower than the rest
of the state mostly because it's fall we have a lot of
bears here. And so as your as you have more bears your
population growth rate starts to slow down. And if you have
room to expand obviously a population growth rates going
to be high right, you're feeling all that an occupied
areas so I mean in a nutshell that's that's where a
population growth is no statewide I can tell you
because it's an additive of all there's those things.
>> Yeah it was more interested in are are wary of 2% so so
is the agency and in discussion with any of our sister in
states that historically were in the bear habitat that no
longer have bears Alabama by example, certain parts of
Mississippi there are no black bears there. There are a stark
warning of the black bear. So has there been any
discussion instead of
euthanizing when necessary to relocate these to these very
rural and remote areas where they would not be in danger of
humans or even themselves putting themselves in danger.
>> That's a really easy question. The other states
don't want our bears. More bears no, I mean it is you know
we do have to respect the boundaries of the state and but
we have basically all the states. We're part of that was
yeah it was these are you know they all states communicate
about things across the borders which is extremely important.
But you know they have their own programs and basically I
mean we don't want theirs from Georgia. You know we want to
hear is from Louisiana, so. So yeah we all basically are
sticking within our borders on of our population strategies.
>> Well, you know an observation I have and I've
probably really spend more time in the wilderness, the buddy
here
because I'm a Hunter and I will tell you my latest encounter
was with a grizzly in Montana, we don't have a
who decide to help himself to my bedroom at about 2 o'clock
in the morning.
Anybody to spend any time in the wilderness would understand
there's are naturally curious, sure.
I have been seeing a tree stand and had a black bear climbed up
the tree.
Literally 5 feet from me look at me
trying to figure out what I am and soon as I move or or
makeup.
Scattered all yeah. The problem here is
we have a lot of residents that
want to see him.
This is a great we want to see the Bears and their friends
come from out of town that we have bears here. What's
troublesome in the backyard to get to see the barrel or more.
Until we address that issue, yeah we're going to continue to
see their human interactions bear that interactions which
are unfortunate. You know with the dog food and cat food
people leave outside, it's a natural track.
And I just wonder
and I know it's a hard and if a cold
issue to try to police without a neighbor calling and saying
hey, Bob's feeding the bear you know, missus Smith sleeve in
our cash dog food outside right.
I think we're continue to see this regardless of their trash
cans regardless of other things
and even that
the natural curiosity. The bear is too
check out what little noises or what's happening as they go out
makes the program but typically soon as they see human any
movement face calf.
But now they do because
people want to say it because they're beautiful and I agree
there beautiful animal. So I don't know that we're going to
fix this problem completely.
I do like
the electric doormat you know issues you know many times out
West and when we are securing our supplies.
We have to put them in trees and electric fence along the
bottom of the tree right to keep the Bears from getting
into the
and I think it's going to continue to be you know as we
Mark you outside you know, this is their own love everybody
having their summer barbecues and the kids party around the
pole.
It's going to happen we all have to be honest that's going
to happen.
And so to commissioner Hearst point I think anything the
agency can do to assure the public that humane treatment of
persuading bears to stay away.
What would be a good endeavor
to to go go down the road. The average person doesn't
understand electric fences or electric doormats if you're a
student at electric chair. It's not the case.
In fact, some electric fences
we're going to face a bear
with all of them all of it. So
I would really like to see a when you get up to if you could
in my office and actual population.
A study that's been done in this general area that you
could supply to us be very helpful.
>> Sure yeah we we do you plan on actually having a a
population estimate completed so we need 10 years so that
basically a generation between our last one which was in 2015
am so by 20 25 somewhere in there we would be doing.
This population again, but I can certainly provide
everything that for you right center and one found and also
tell your map of
sightings of locations.
>> I will tell you there are far more bears in the East side
of this County that is their right to get reports too.
We grow the yeah they're not a problem, I mean it's just but
there's a lot out there.
>> Yeah, everybody reports of a sighting that so thank you for
being here project. Thanks
lots of talk about there's yes, yeah, it's my job, yeah,
absolutely.
>> At some point in time love to have an opportunity that
when you come in make a presentation that we can
include some time on Coyotes. Okay. With.
>> So we have a we have a another subject matter expert
that you have Ken we can get to so you do there's a Coyote
these we talked probably for 2 days about the.
>> I I think to commissioner hers point next door and social
other social media
brings these things to light which is a very good thing.
Much of the time, but often times it also allows for
misinformation.
And and so anything that we can do also on the Coyote funds to
help us spread the word that would be helpful as well so we
appreciate you so much and I would add Bobcats to that list
but since they were they other a very active.
>> Alligators that snake and I I'll say commissioner zembower
I actually think I live in the wilderness. It is to see the
Cubs win after they were made. But certainly Florida's a lot
of play so we're absolutely willing to help you any way we
can yeah, absolutely it's a beautiful place. Thank you so
much for being here. I do have one more question. Real quick,
follow just invasive species are we are we having.
>> Any concern right here in Seminole that you're where with
any particular invasive.
>> Species, it's said to be there. It's not my my program
understood the program but we do have things that pop up in
fact just to not too long ago. I believe those in Volusia but
we did have an African porcupine it was just like
running around. It was hit by a car. But we yes so on occasion
will have things like take use and every once in a while we'll
have like the random iguana or or you know some say that might
have actually been recently released but this far north we
don't have a population like the you know the Everglades
Python issue that we have going on
things like take use and other reptiles they are moving North
and.
>> We're trying to keep a handle on the ground is going
take it.
>> I take it is basically just like a monitor lizard looks
like a it's the it's the big ugly lizard yet a lizard
basically we're not having any significant to my knowledge as
far as
the holes. I think we're OK as far as plants as a whole right
into the station. But yeah as far as animals right here,
OK, but I can check with our eye program leaf on that for us
to get to like maybe what we are finding in Seminole County
great. Thank you very much. Thank you so much for being
here and I thank you.
>> I think we have a member of the public that would like to
comment on Mister let his presentation so we have Katrina
shadix and then Joe humphrys
and typically we don't have public comment on presentation
so I haven't even read our public comment statement but
you're a veteran miss shadix
just be nice and then we'll get that
Katrina shadix executive director of bear warriors
United channel eleven's Tenneco trail Geneva, Florida, 3,
2, 7, 3, 2,
Commissioner her and we'll let you know that Tiger land
personally called me about 2, 3, years ago and asked me if I
was going to be okay with them taking theirs also so, and what
you said, yes, I did say as long as it doesn't give them a
heart attack and as long as they tested it on themselves
which they did. So we're good there if it's something that I
improved on that there's you know that's a good indication
that it's not cool unusually cool.
I'm sure yeah haha
also
commissioner zembower you did say there are more bears on the
East Side that are not reported and we have a little bit less
but don't think going on in the I'm a little bit more Woods on
there so we're not going to see them as much as the
neighborhoods on the West Side and have constant construction
and deforestation
also a lot of people we're upset that a mother bear and
Cubs were going to be killed or were killed. And so they are
hesitant to call to complain. And but the East Side is doing
a very good job of peacefully coexisting and I've given out
over
have to be over 4,000 free their staffs to the east Side
and another 4,000 on the West Side. So those numbers are
going down because our residents are taking that step
to retrofit their trash cans with the steps and and social
media plays a great part students and one sees it there
are a lot of these new have a lot of new people here a lot of
them don't know we have theirs which is unfortunate that the
soon as they complain about a bear. You've got about 20
people jumping on him on social media saying you need to secure
your trash need to keep your garage doors down. So we're
doing good and Seminole County we have a great handle one of
their situation we have more people known to peacefully
coexist. Then I want them killed or relocated, and we
have to keep in mind we need to get our people to peacefully
coexist, relocating bears is sometimes a death sentence that
they get relocated to the Ocala forest when they try to make it
back to get killed by cars over 200 bears are killed every year
in the state of Florida by cars. Those are just the ones
that we know, and there's also heat approaching rains and Kent
County National Forest and Appalachian state or National
Forest so a lot of hunters just wait for these relocate appears
to be dropped off. And they pick them off and it's it's not
a pleasant thing.
So we want to peacefully coexist not revoke a piece of
cake is not the answer and we want their resources of ABC has
resources to be used on other things like kitchen, people who
illegally killed bears.
And a recently I don't know if you've seen on the news,
there's been this time of year can get that 15 minutes in some
thanks.
We've had some really good coverage by our new stations,
they're not doing any sensationalizing they're
actually helping people secure their trash giving tips because
it's part of the year's high per se Asia. So we have bears
eating 20,000 calories a day and certifies and a lot of
people don't know the mother bears pregnant mother bears
don't consume enough calories. They will miss carry their
babies so.
You know we withdraw going perfect world for these fares
to stand the woods and Heathrow natural food sources and the
way that we do that as one by securing a trash can on the
track in the b***. We in Seminole County and other
counties are making mikes job a lot harder because we're
committing horrible acts of the 4 station we're putting houses
and driveways and roads for the Bears used to live. So they're
giving you know it from all angles and all levels so if
we're going to keep allowing the development to happen we
must require that developers provide bear-proof trash cans.
They're creating this problem. They should be part of the
responsibility of peacefully coexisting and just yesterday.
Wish to news we're out it, I never heard on celery Avenue.
A lady hadn't secure trash ahead picture 7 not only was it
a trash can with no late she also had separate bags of trash
out and this isn't a new development that's up to the
woods and they have more developed going and across the
street and a quarter of a mile down the road. So that there's
going to be pushed out into these neighborhoods where we're
going to see more than there's not necessarily more bears
there's just less shelter for them to stand so they're going
to be more in view. And also you know when that fwc mistake
that the BC money years ago to get these trash cans that was
great that was sort of disappear fast starters.
Kit for counties and then counties are supposed to take
this over.
So if we could have buy-in from the county and not depend on
the state for this money that would be really good because we
have a lot of residents like this one yesterday with the
unsecured trash my steps can help them they have to have a
decent trash can to put the straps on and if you see on
the paper that I gave you there are some of the road me do that
then the East Side. They have there's a neighborhood and
they've been using their straps and last week they were left
over from left a note from waste pro asking them to keep
the can and want and then her husband called waste pro was
told that this neighborhood is not approved to use their
stacks so you know we need to get a little something going on
with waste pro I don't know if it can be included in the
county contract that the pick up. Thank you know, and
strapped the snaps and that's included but we're getting a
lot of roadblocks here for people wanting to do the right
thing. So I think I would love to help you with this and just
quick think we put out over 200 of the signs this is the fwc
site so that tells people you're going to get a ticket if
you don't secure your trash and then my sign says here's how
you don't get a ticket. Here's the problem, here's a solution.
This is help we've and over a 100,000 people you know exposed
to this and asking for stab still doing a good job and I
want to help any way I can and we want to thank Mike from the
good work they do to me. I thank you thank you so much.
Just trees.
>> Mister chair mentioned, yes, ah, yes, I have a question
about something that Miss shadix said to Mike or land.
Okay. Just real quickly, I mean it.
The the tragedy that she suggested that when we drop
bears off at the Ocala that hunters are picking them off
could you comment to that.
>> So it is true that we have there's that you get hit by
cars after relocate them obviously you're putting him in
a different part of their home range to to my knowledge we
don't have an organized
to follow us out to the woods and shoot them, however,
actually Katrina was involved with exposing of a dog hunting
ring that we did successfully prosecute. I don't know that
those 2 things
correlated meaning like they were following us with the
intention of actually turning their dogs loose and we turn
them but certainly this dog hunting bring was doing that
thing so and I was deposed for like 6 hours over the same with
outside which was prosecuted them. And that is all the
moving through the courts and half of them have been have
pled guilty so so the answer is I don't know if that's actually
happening in the way that Katrina described it, but I'm
certainly it is you know it's a hard life to be a bear. Thank
you Sir.
Commissioner, zembower did you want to similar questions I
want to know about all these bear poaching rains that
existed and I think what I'm here it is
that's not the case we have some big poaching ring. There
was one ratings there was one that was exposed and we did
bring a prosecution. I don't think that we have and some you
know epidemic of poaching rings. There's there's
certainly one-off situations where somebody shoots a bear
but to my knowledge we don't have any court in the
organized. Coaching going on. And so the one that's currently
going on is still working its way through the court system.
It is yes, it was and Apalachicola know is actually
here in Ocala OK what a lot of dog training takes place a lot
of dog hunting takes place a year they and we don't have any
correlation to actually relocating and then it
happening these people were just training dogs to chase
bears and in some cases. The killing those bears as well
so OK do whatever you can get yeah, thanks and with credit
law enforcement for a deep undercover investigation on
that. So.
>> That's wonderful. Thank you. Mister Humphries, thank you for
this. Joe humphrys 83 colonel point coves and for your first
thing I'd like to do is congratulate Michael on his new
position. I think
shows that he might be just as self abuse of this some of the
rest of us. But he's got a I've gotten to know my over the last
several years have almost as much contact with them as I do
with the Bears themselves. He does a great job, he's a
great representative for both the animals and for we the
citizens, so I just don't want to thank you for all your hard
work. It's not an easy job because as a number of you
pointed out today.
Yeah, misinformation this information whatever it is it's
it's there. We have bears I have tears in my neighborhood.
This past week. 3 problem with 4 nights out of the week and as
you can as been pointed out. We have people that I go to the
bear preserving didn't see any bear so then they come over to
my house, so they actually can see some. So and again the
problem is and when I first moved in my community several
years ago and I had a very very large hungry more about this
time of the year that need to be he spent the day and one of
my old tricks
I told all the neighbors do not come out do not make this a
photo op but of course nobody listened to me and yes, we do
as they just like with the deer's all the other animals as
they come closer and closer to us and they don't get shot.
Then they go well it must be OK to go there and that's the
problem as one of my
fwc friends told me several years ago we do have a very
problem we have people problems.
Same way with the trash cans I can tell you for a fact that in
my neighborhood we have problems for a while when we
started with the majority of our neighbors went to the
bear-proof cans guess what tailed off tremendously we have
we've had a couple of events couple of them strictly because
they forgot to collapse the can
where we ran into problems several years ago as a number
of you participated in the development community came in
this building. They have lots of dumpsters, we know they have
lots of friends from the South. They're building and they would
leave their food and the dumpsters which is not a good
thing. Our friends at lenoir finally came out did the right
thing got cover dumpsters got the bear proof individual cans
but again the problem is because I had last week and boy
was it the wildlife summit whenever putting on a new roof.
As a dumpster in the driveway.
I look at my camera sonji guess what there's a bear in the
dumpster.
Whenever you know that well guess what that the people
doing his roof didn't.
And when I talk to the dumpster people I talk to the
contractors, they said, gee we didn't know, I said, I guess
you missed assignment came and went and the vision that says
hey we're of their community their affairs here
and don't leave trash in the camps, so they promise to take
care of it. But the owner of the company who does a lot of
work in all was said we need to communicate that to the
construction community and he says I'm more than happy to
help make that happen. That's great news Mister against the
UK. Shun is the key. Thank you thank you so much.
>> Anyone else who wishes to speak on that particular topic.
All right, thank you so much, I'm just going to just say just
a couple things and you know.
>> I've asked that Mister Bloomberg the environmental
services director to look at the bear trash cans that that
program work with Mister Orlando as well. Commissioner
her brought up at the previous meeting about educating
education with the H.O.A. is in the area and I have Mister
Patton from our communications department working on that note
to end is also working with. Mister Orlando as well so.
Staff is on it as well.
>> Fantastic thank you so much.
Our next presentation is from gabby melts. It's our quarterly
report from the Seminole soil and water conservation
district. And thank you for being here is that now it's
thank you Mister land of safe travels. Well that's a hard act
to follow having those 2, 5, to call the drive Seminole County.
So in water conservation district and I'm very grateful
that you all of the led me to give you a quarterly report of
some of the activities that we've been participating in
trying to educate them. The citizens as well and so perhaps
we could partner on some of this we are working on our our
5 year plan. And it's done and I think this morning it hit
sure I picture of mailboxes your e-mail box is and you can
see here we have 4 members on our board right now I think
tonight we're going to have 2 or 3 other people who are about
interested in serving with us as well, so you can see how to
contact us and and number I was told I did change this power
point and added a few more things which I'm really glad.
I did this morning I think it there's some relevancy in
understanding a little bit more about the East and the West
side of the county about the amount of force that we
actually have in Seminole County that a lot of people may
not know.
This is our our board members and we have a state law that
was that governs what we do for for the for the counties and
you can see that chapter 5.82 was changed in right before I
ring and for this board it was changed and they changed some
of the require and send one of the things that I have been
wondering are wanting to get from the state would be the
percentage of agriculture versus the percentage of urban
in our counties, I'm sitting to know because so in water boards
are relevant. Both in Bourbon and in the rural areas of
course much more so to to assist the agricultural
producers.
We had a program a couple weeks ago for agricultural producers
we had some and people come to and we went over invasive
exotic plants which you guys brought up a little bit today
which some people have these in their homes as well as they
have them out on the pitch esterly ins and so we're we're
working towards doing a program for some of our agricultural
people on some of these plants that are poisonous and toxic
and can actually harm children if the pieces of the leaves or
eat the berries as well as several the producers that were
at our workshop. They have lost 3 to 5 cows at a time when some
of these plants are present in the those and so it's kind of
hard for you to know when us that when your cow gets sick,
why got sick, but these are this is a good reason the
veterinarians often can can define that for you. So I went
over dirty plants that can be commonly found in your pastors
and things and so we had a discussion and then we had our
and rcs agent Darren Wiley who is is eagerly looking to help
our agricultural producers and foresters in Seminole County to
help enhance their practices and give money to re return
money to them for spending on a best management practices and
this information is up there for Jared Wiley and you can get
in touch with me and I can get you in contact with him and he
also is working on some of the urban a river or Creek issues
that we have and I guess winter Springs and some in in Seminole
County.
So some of the activities besides that program. We had
and rcs a workshop up in Gainesville. With all the the
song water boards that came to they're not everyone showed up
that we had a really good training on how to do are
public records and how to of we manage with little assistance
from from.
We are funding sources that we we have to in incur and also we
have one of our members is assigned to the Callan which is
the Council of all the groups in Seminole County that all the
local governments and she wanted to give a special thank
you to commissioner dallari she was working with him through
that honest drainage issue and also there was some
presentations we've done on Seminole forever which was
really important getting the information out there to folks
and also we also are having in the future of a celebration.
This is the 75th year of the song water board so I've been
hanging out in the Seminole history museum looking up who
are the the people who started aquaculture in Seminole County
and how winter goal, the Saint Johns River isn't that and
transporting the food back in the days. So we we want to have
an event. We're going to have an event for that and also I've
been invited to a a state Forest workshop. Tomorrow.
In Gainesville where they're coming up with plans of how to
beef up some of the force tree and plant more trees in Florida
for helping our our water situations.
So here I didn't realize it. But there's 39 state forests in
Florida we actually have 4 and a state forest in Seminole
state forces right across the wekiva River but we have the
little big ECON state forest and so we have in Seminole
County over 21,000 acres of forestry land, you know that's
protected so you know the bear population does have a large
expanse of the area where they can hang out, but they get fed
much better in our neighborhood. So you know it's
a lesson to be learned in that respect so I've done programs
on their trash cans and hooking you know that in I we have a
lot of raccoons in our neighborhood I got chased the
other day by 3 records. So I mean we do have wildlife and in
Florida and you can see on the on the East Side. You know
there's a lot of activities and places to go and this is just
adding to the benefit of the Seminole forever program and I
was lucky enough this last week to go over to Volusia County to
speak on behalf of our County to get us to to purchase
hopefully. The state will decide to purchase the
Yarborough ranch and commissioner her was there and
she did a lovely presentation as well as commissioner dallari
and we were well received I think we had probably
1210 people that came to speak on behalf of us over the
Volusia County so hopefully we'll you know perhaps get the
Yarborough ranch purchased for for our for our County.
Also so this is the invitation we're going to be sending out
some invitations putting in a newspaper it's going to kind of
open kind of low key of 75th anniversary and we're going to
have a historic timeline has a presentation and hopefully some
speakers and try to honor some past stolen water board member
perhaps from the 70's 80's or or so you know in and have them
say what it was like back then to compared to what it is
today. So you all are invited and the public is invited in
and it hopefully it will be a nice evening. We'll have some
cake and 3 to 5 and and low low key. And also right now if you
get a chance go out on Lake just a bit you can see those
beautiful sunflowers we've got just acres of it there so.
Thank you for this opportunity and I'll take any questions now
any questions for miss notes.
Host of the open seat that you haven't Seminole soil and water
board that is a seat where the person would be elected right
they would run for office and it's it's an elected position.
Everyone we can appoint them it is an elected position so when
packed vacated the the sea. So it's open now and so we can
appoint someone Intel, you know that term is up and then they
would run again, okay that I didn't know that that's great.
That's fantastic. So you're so you're putting out are you
putting out the all call for anyone who would be interested
in joining you and knowing that they would then if they wanted
to stay they would have to they would have to they they would
have the opportunity to run for office right absolutely and and
we're looking to encourage people from the Geneva area to
Liotta black hammock you know people to get more involved in
and really work on you know with the 5 year plan that we
have that you know that will be a little bit easier to do some
of that outreach to get people more involved. So we really do
need the agricultural producers in Seminole County to help us
out and step forward on that and but we do have a lot of
urban issues as well wonderful. Thank you so much flat but
you're able to be here and I know our entire team that's
been able to work with you over the last several months is
really enjoyed it is very grateful for the the expertise
that you bring to the table so thank you thank you very much
Ali, thank you.
Any public comment on this mulch is water report fast
moving on to the consent agenda and
wanted to. Go ahead and read the comments for public
participation.
Pursuant to Florida law the public has a right to be heard
on all propositions except when the Board of County
commissioners is acting on ministerial or emergency
matters or conducting a meeting exempt from section 2, 8,
6, 0, 1, 1, Florida statutes, public top comments time on
proposition should be 3 minutes for individuals and 6 minutes
for group representatives, the right to be heard during quasi
judicial hearings is governed by Florida law the public will
be provided the opportunity to be heard on non agenda item
matters at the end of the meeting proper decorum will be
observed in accordance with the operating policies and
procedures of Seminole County Board of County commissioners
section 2.1 7, 5, public participation before the board.
All public comments show avoid personal attacks, abusive
language and redundancy disrespectful rude or relevant
or slanderous remarks are disruptive behavior may subject
to the individual to removal from the board chambers and the
chairman may curtail repetitious comments. We have a
couple of things that we wanted to point out on the consent
agenda.
Item number 17. Is in addition to the agenda.
And although it is not on this morning's agenda item number 30
we just want to let any one know that that item this
afternoon is going to be and then re advertised so anyone
who might be watching at home thinking you're going to come
down this afternoon, I'll save you a trip and say that that is
that is going to be postponed.
Mister gray any modifications other than that you did a
perfect thank you. So we have the county managers consent
agenda, which is items 4 through 23 with the addition of
17. Is there.
>> Motion to move to approve 4, 3, 23 with the addition of 17.
And item 24 was the constitutional consent.
>> All right, there's a motion is their second. There's a
second motion by commissioner zembower second by commissioner
her any discussion.
All those in favor say aye aye any opposed motion passes
unanimously
moving to our regular consent agenda. Item number 25,
which is being presented by Mister Harris.
>> Alan Harris, director of emergency management to animal
services division.
That would be
Desiree Elliott assistant County manager in case, there's
any legal type questions is this with this. We're learning
as well as Carole Coleman, the mission manager for animal
services. But today we bring forward to you animal is an
animal user animal cruelty registry database.
The development of this database will help move the
needle if you will to prevent animal cruelty year in Seminole
County.
The design will be a working with the clerk of the court
which I want to thank Grant. We've had multiple
conversations about this already but it will be to
produce a database that will be available on the Web site for
any shelter rescue any other organization Seminole County
which adopts out animals, they'll be able to cross
reference individuals that potentially will adopt an
animal or want to adopt an animal from from that facility
with those that have been
gone through the court system and then found to be guilty of
animal cruelty
as you may remember of back.
Actually commissioner dallari had requested that staff look
at this. In early 2023 at the same time other was a Senate
bill that was created Senate bill 9.32, which would have
created a statewide animal cruelty a registry that Senate
bill did die. I and session and didn't make it to a vote.
So we picked this back up and started working with the
different organizations.
As I mentioned we worked with legal to identify any legal
issues related to this we we have a language now that we put
on our website very similar to some of the other counties that
have this type of registry. We worked with risk management.
Information technology for the design of the Web page. The
Office of management budget to identify if there was any
budgetary concerns related to this and of course as I
mentioned the clerk of the court.
This was brought to the animal control board. September
unanimously approved by the animal control board to move in
here to the Board of County commissioners.
As I mentioned illegal has provided some language for the
Web page. We the mention to the clerk of the court will be
providing a list of offenders we decided that it would
probably best on a monthly basis, this court case is
really don't occur weekly and resolve weekly that were in
court now on the animal cruelty case that's lasted for a couple
weeks it's going back to court again on Friday.
The Blake case, everybody's familiar with is a months now
and it could be months months months more.
So those tend to not happen on a weekly basis, those tend to
be a monthly, so we believe that will be a okay.
The one question that we have for those 2 questions that
we're going to ask for you today, one is if you wish us to
direct staff to move forward with the development of the Web
page. And then the activation of the database and then the
second is how far back do you want us to go so. Counties
across the state of Florida that have this type of
database. Same 3 we've seen 7 and we've seen 10
the animal control board wanted to go back forever. So I'm
looking to you to determine if you what you would like a.
I'm I'm not putting anything specific out their personally.
But those are what we've seen across the state of Florida.
As I mentioned the the come to the court will provide us the
database and then we'll work with information technology to
make sure that's updated
as that database is provided to us. Any any questions and
concerns related to addresses someone may have moved some of
that is passed away or something like that to address
maybe flag that the person wants to adopt an animal,
but the person that did animal cruelty wasn't living in that
house, but that's a question that's going to come up
potentially will work with the clerk of the court to identify
those that are removed from the database is necessary depending
on how long of course the time frame you you select.
Get right to it so we're asking the Board of County
commissioner to approve and authorize staff to proceed.
With the launch of an animal abuse or animal cruelty
registries lashed out of base.
>> Any questions for Mister Harris. Commissioner her and
then commissioner zembower.
>> So I'm not the proper time to make the motion but I am
happy to make the motion just so Jay doesn't get to do it
first.
>> And I'm happy to second on there. So maybe we are motion.
>> I would actually err on the side of caution with this.
I'm Allan and I did briefing and I did briefing with several
members of the community, including somebody that I will
read their information Debbie to Reno from Volusia County who
couldn't be here today. But she was instrumental in the passing
of Ponce Islam which is a statewide law to improve the
opportunity for judges to give stiffer penalties to these
abusers.
I have landed the it with the animal control board that it
should be unlimited and the reasoning for that is because
at the onset
10 years is a long time away the difference between 10 years
and unlimited today doesn't feel like much.
And the change with which the pace that the pace with which
changes happening with data availability is significant in
the time that we've been sitting in this room.
There's access to new data that we didn't have that at the
beginning of this meeting and so within that 10 years I think
databases are going to improve conductivity is going to
improve and the opportunity to make sure that the databases
are clean 10 years from now we'll be well exist so I'm my
motion would be to make it unlimited at this point should
there be a need to future just at the we come back to the
board to future just a second.
>> Try to try to help you out there manager all right there
and I think you're looking for a couple of items that do have
some yeah, so let me just let's stick with this one item that
commissioner has brought up on the and perpetuity so I want
clarification when they say they would like to go back for
forever are
looking in the rearview mirror back to the beginning of
Seminole County for anyone who was convicted of an animal
abuse offense. That's correct. Yes, so what they're looking
for and and you can to retain that going forward to infinity
and beyond.
>> That is what that that is the question that I'm asking of
you today is do we go back 3, 7, 10. Again that's what we've
seen across the state of Florida for the opportunity for
ever and ever. The challenge there's challenges with each of
them right right.
>> I just want make sure because I want to make sure I
understand commissioner your motion is for staff to work
with the clerk of the court to go back to 1913,
to look for all good with it.
All of those documenting to still follow here as I
understand the intent and I understand the passion but I'm
going to be
maybe that percent to be so
does the clerk have items digitized in a fashion going
back to the creation of the county that you will be able to
find these records when it comes to official records.
>> March or so beyond that court records there's different
set of
rules are retention period started
and the early 2 thousands so there are no court records that
are digitized before that I mean you're looking at millions
of pages so that the we have to go take a look there's
different retention is whether it's a felony or misdemeanor
those rules were changed to a 5 7 about 10 years ago, I guess
to extended but the other problem that occurs we see this
with collecting fines and fees as people pass on they leave.
Once we get debts for fines. That are past 7 years to the
ability to collect on becomes pretty minimal the data you
know just things change people move. So we can take a look at
what we've got and and work work with the R and I think
we've been sending the we send about 2 reports here already so
there's a large amount of I think what you have is what we
have so far so prior to 2000.
>> You would be going back and someone would be manually
looking through a window. He would not do it so the and
so I just wanna make sure that we're really clear on what
we're asking versus what you can deliver because I don't
want us to make a motion that then you not through any fault
of your own, but just the circumstance then can't fulfill
and then we have this what we're not going back that far
so I just want to make sure we're really clear.
What is possible.
Okay commissioner zembower commissioner Constantine all
the action tried to
help clean up your request.
>> Go back as far as reasonably information existence,
accessible.
Which is sounds like to me 23 years give or take
approximately they were different courts were going
digital back then that predates me site so with whatever is
reasonable that your office
is capable of supplying
without us and every upon having to hire 2 or 3 staff
members are dedicated to researching documents.
And so
the motion of the world would agree to a friendly amendment
go back which is
reasonably available through the park's office and his
records.
>> So all revise the motion to have us go back to what is
reasonably available presumably in the range of the Year 2000.
And for that information to be reported back to this board so
it is not a mystery and to be illustrated on whatever
wherever this registry lies. So and I would also say that if
there is the opportunity for citizens to do research and
report in as long as it's validated that that also be
added to the registry.
>> I would wait 3 motion or the second would agree except for
the
weighing in from the general public if it exists in the
records should exist and the records and I think
my questions to Allen just for the public's information or
move off the motion side at this point.
Here's the reality.
The reason it didn't pass in Tallahassee is because they had
crazy things they want to put this registry for like people's
dogs that would have their head out the window going down the
street that was abuse. Well number it would be in the right
mind knows
calls to their heads up the wind, the wind is down and they
got it.
There's also
in the South.
A certain tradition, and which people were raised in which the
way they handle won't read all. Now some of those arguably
reviews.
But abuse in the eye of the beholder is not the bar that we
need to be relying on we should be relying on the conviction in
the state courts.
And make sure
that the expiration time for appeals has expired before
anybody of that is on the registry.
I think that's going to be Paramount.
We also have to be on that's that
this does not help us.
If somebody moves
from Orange County to hear whoosh account of the year off
from Tampa Bay here.
We don't know what they've gone over there.
So that person who's a bad person could actually adopt.
This is a good step in should and should happen, but I want
to make sure that the public understands.
This is not going to eliminate all animal abuse is going to be
a beginning to start
a baseline. So we prevent as much as we possibly can.
>> Right if they move from she there to hear that will
certainly be more challenging if they drive over say from
Volusia County we can look at the Volusia County database
which be nice. Also Volusia County facts humane society
could look at our database and also, but if they move yes,
you're correct. In the name and the address isn't populated on
a statewide database eventually called like you mentioned will
probably get there at some point but.
>> And we're not there and that was my next question what what
is what would we do to a town
to ensure
that somebody is adopting that we do some kind of background
search from once they where they came to determine if they
have been convicted
of animal cruelty or abuse.
>> That was once a the plan forward with this particular
thing is once once it's ready once its launch of
in support of it in the court the court we're going to fight
every rescue every partner agency that we work with here
in Seminole County and really throughout central Florida to
let him know this database exists where to go so that will
help. It moves the needle does it stop all in all, we know it
was tops the out one Springs case because she was never
tried before and she was never found guilty before and she's
not even at this point, I mean still going through the court
system and it will probably be a couple months before you know
finally makes it to the court system.
It is important to note. That
unfortunately, sometimes animal services is used as a weapon.
There are many many times that the neighborhoods dispute.
We get called and have to go out and have to deal with
not an animal cruelty case that someone upset with another
person.
For any animal cruelty case it is not just animal services
goes out in fact is not animal services to be Frank with you
that we are a civil entity. We are not a criminal entity.
Law enforcement must charge and we're getting an individual
with animal cruelty of must be a Police Department. The
sheriff's office Florida wildlife Commission there are
15 active cases right now and Seminole County
at various levels of of investigation.
We're just a piece of that.
There's another piece to the state Attorney's office right
so this is going to move the needle a little is going to
help those that have already been convicted.
But will it solve everything no, but we are moving in the
right track notice that I just want to make sure that the
general public understood
what this was really think about it so. But my second
still stands commissioner Constantine.
>> Well a great I had a long time ago in a lot of what we
were in order to out of the question. Well a lot of things
that I.
>> One just just heard a lot about were brought up, but
let's just go back to one thing
is this just a registry for violations in Seminole County.
4
as has potentially been suggested, but I think has a
pretty much available. One database. Did they have been
convicted in Pennsylvania can we not put that in the
registry. Explain that process to me please and actually of
that.
>> I asked our clerk of the court to help us with that
02:00AM. Well when it comes to state wide reports that that's
something that's a continual evolving process seems like
every time a state legislators get together they require.
A new report and as I mentioned article 5 which they tell us to
create something and there's no funding for it so this year.
A lot of this goes through the.
The clerk Association which has a comprehensive case
information system that's available to certain agencies
that you might be allowed to access that to see statewide
court records we don't have any interaction with other states
but you're correct of somebody. Those here from Sarasota or
wherever we wouldn't. I know that in our record because it
doesn't exist in Seminole County's record Seminole
County's only Seminole County. Last year that was you see our
database we sent for the legislators this year, it's has
to do with the re-entry and being able get your voters
rights back and trying to compiled back together so
that's a new database, we're working on statewide to send
data but it August or the ccisd that is something that could be
explained were explored rather that the other thing is there's
not there's also security matrix of what they do you can
see and can't see
that's fairly complex that set up by the Florida.
Supreme Court. So we can take a look at all that and Dell then
a little further, what options are. But you would not be able
to see other court records from other states and this database
which is targeted which just be Seminole County only there is
no statewide database that I'm aware of for animal cruelty so
the I I see a lot of yellow.
>> Cards or yellow sheets there so I know people want to talk
about this so I just want to do make sure that we understand
that this database that and that you're suggesting
that has been made a motion seconded to go back as far as
reasonably possible. I guess is the best way to put it.
Unless we fall into it from Volusia County or Sarasota
County or Lancaster County Pennsylvania.
We really are only dealing with violations here in Seminole and
with so many people moving in are moving out or if somebody
or renting or whatever the case may be.
If they wanted to you know adopt an animal and they have a
conviction in orange guarded of having a problem in.
Clay County having its students this isn't going to stop them
from doing that is that which pretty much.
>> It would be unlikely that we would
see that a less clear in the clay County. I don't believe.
That's I'm just using that as an example right and we would
have to know they moved from clay County.
>> So so the fact of the matter is folks, you know as much as I
would like to see full and complete database statewide
nationwide available.
For this so that anybody wherever they were that has
been you know has a violation convicted of animal cruelty
could not adopt we really I give we're just kind of
scratching the surface by being able to as best we can we're
able to do that in Seminole County and I see that we may
have an update.
>> Out to record highs while the clerk as soon as. Yeah,
that's what that's what I'm trying to get to I wanted to
just just get me to run the meeting and then we'll be we'll
be okay.
>> Well the icy kind of 2 things happening here one is my
understanding of this website was this was available to the
public is when I saw other counties it was kind of like a
as a sex offender database. I thought this website was more
here the people in Seminole County that these animals.
If you're simply looking at once I adopt cedis do
a cursory background check through a CCI a system to see
what their convictions are not be super simple if if you're
allowed to have that access. I think you you don't want to
make them are too high and get fingerprints cousin, nobody's
going to adopt a dog rights got to be you know something simple
to do so that that could be the simplest thing as far as people
adopting issues look at the state database and see what
they're a conviction is what the record is commissioner her.
>> Has to be recognized and commissioner zembower I know
you all can see the hands that are going up, but I really am
paying very close attention to his next. I assure, you
commissioner her so I think we've we've managed to take.
>> First step request and confuse the issue in about 4
different directions on and try to pull this back together.
Processes by which adoption agencies
validate the adopter are up to them.
Well we're doing today is giving them one more piece of
information in Seminole County about Seminole County
convictions that helps them make decisions for placing
animals in good homes.
So we're not here voting on processes.
I have no intention of searching for perfection and
putting off what's right in front of us today. We don't
have a statewide database. We don't have a nationwide bait
database. We don't have a worldwide database, not have
any control over that so we're going to make a database in
Seminole County. I think that's the request.
My suggestion for
doing that
allowing citizens to do research on their own was not.
>> What about them.
Convicting the person on their own commissioner zembower so
let me clarify that it would be that the clerk's office would
go back.
We're about to the year 2000 depending and we would report
back
that should there be validated research of records prior to
that because it could happen on a case, specific basis trust me
that we would have the opportunity to add we're not
going to get stuck because this motion was about the year 2000
to add something that is unknown conviction.
Commissioner, zembower you reference to that we wouldn't
add them to the registry until an appeal was satisfied and
that is not the motion.
The court system once convicted, everybody has the
opportunity to appeal. But you stand convicted until the
appeal overturns the conviction. At which point we
would pick that up as well and so they would come off the
registry because we're searching monthly for the
outcomes of these court cases so you'd be on the registry.
As Judy Kaye did and then come off the registry once they
they went on appeal.
And so that's the motion.
I hope I can clarify that all.
>> You have and I would not support that without an appeal.
I've no interest in trying to embarrass some buddies. Name or
reputation when the court process has not run its course.
So I would not support that until after the appeal process.
I've been involved with enough court case and understand how
things can go sideways with the conviction. Judges make
decisions of evidence that can't come in they make
decisions from the bench that are improper that ultimately
overturned. I do not think it's in the best interest of this
community too
embarrassing impeach someone until their rights have been
exhausted and once that has occurred then
and only then should they go on this registry.
And I agree. This is a good first step and I understand
what we're being asked to do, but there is a I've talked to
many in the in the public about this issue and a lot of them
have this belief
that this is going to pick up any animal abuser that happens
to come in and from anywhere from where they came from.
Well, the reality is
one of the reasons we don't have a nationwide animal abuse
registry is because states have different levels of what is
considered abuse.
In California is not what's considered abuse and
and I do. And the state has struggled with the same things
as here in Florida. You know, arguably there are people that
use hunting dolls in a certain way that a lot of us would
consider abuse of a nature that
that is their tradition that that's how they they've
operated. And so I would not support until the person is a
legal process and the rights of been extinguished
to go on to this registry.
>> So asked a question of the county attorney just now of how
the sex abuse registries are handled are people added to the
sex abuse registry offender registry.
But after all appeals are exhausted or at the initial
conviction and then if they have enough so she's going to
research that that wasn't something she had off the top
of her head. But I think I I personally would support going
ahead and doing it at the conviction, I'm not as
concerned about the appeal process because that can get
dragged on for forever for first personally but we're
going to look at that just to see because for me that would
be kind of like a of
like how do we do it in others, the air.
>> And so I can on the search history. But I want to know the
financial ramifications exposure to this County by
putting somebody on the registry that is not
we're on the full course of their.
>> We go right. Okay, so we're not going to shout out from the
gallery. Thank you so much.
So when there's a motion and a second was there something
else. Mister Harris that you needed to have as a part of
that motion, you're looking I thought for a multi multiple
things that you wanted from the board 2 things you do think you
hit on, but we did have them both in ocean, okay
commissioner Constantine madam chair, I think that the
seconder to hear back its second, I know you said that
you don't have a second. I would like to hear that
today, the yellow cards if I could because I tend to agree
on the motion but I just want to hear from the public 4 and
we will have salute Lee do that I want to make sure that I know
where we are with a five-member board with that with only 4
members here.
In seconds
seeing where we're at
because it's a different dynamic. So thank you Mister
Harris. I appreciate that is that something that we can look
at before we get done with the public comment. Do you think.
For conversation now awesome, thank you.
So how many pumps we have that would like to speak we have 3.
Well, I have one to pay I saw the yellow cards so let's make
sure that everyone is clear that the public comment form
that if you want to speak on this item that you have filled
out a yellow card if you would like to speak on item number 25
regarding the animal cruelty registry.
And you're filling out a green card, if you would like to
submit your comments for the public record.
And will need to to get those filled out and turned in to the
desk of funds. Now so
the first name a few votes will be Katrina shadix
and given the fact that you have all heard where the board
is coming from and where our thoughts are
keep that in mind that initiatives to 11 Senate coach
Anthony the 32 to 72. First I want to thank Alan he has done
an amazing job over the past year. For taking this just a
simple request or maybe he sees it as a whining from me but he
took it seriously and he's done a lot of proud Park so has the
animal services, the entire department. Mister gray,
I appreciate your support on this an Andrea. I love how much
you support this and I'm just your view wanted your opinion
and how
your room following and doing the right thing I just can't
say enough good things about how you've handled this entire
abuse registry. Compilation
and this far as financial impact I would support listing
them as an animal abuser once they are convicted of being an
animal abuser.
>> The financial impact on Seminole County alone is
probably in the hundreds of thousands from just the 5
people that have been arrested for animal abuse in the last 12
months. Seminole County animal shelter has had to take in.
I think close to a 100 animals and feed for them and care for
them for nearly a year now
to Seminole County taxpayers have also paid for judges
to hear this, you know we have brand a break we've been to I
lost count of how many court hearing to get to so we have
County employees having to be paid
to try this case and we have our employees that are now
stretched the Seminole County animal shelter is now way over
capacity to shelter hasn't had to euthanize animals they think
since 2016 due to overcrowding
I hope that doesn't change and I hope the county can allocate
more funding to the animal shelter, so that we can
probably take care of the stocks right now. They need
workers there the dogs do not get out of the cages of mice to
have someone to work I actually signed up to volunteer for
animal services, because of all of the dogs that were taken and
from the Brandon Blake case.
And I am
when I went then to be to train for volunteering there was only
one volunteer, they're walking 50 dogs and they weren't even
allowed to walk the Brandon Blake dogs so they need more
staffing. They need more funding. Hopefully maybe it
could be expanded and you know center doing all of the 5
points construction to expand the animal services to better
hold them. And I think the facility. But this is having a
huge impact so getting those abusers on the registry as soon
as they're convicted is of the absolute utmost importance.
Thank you thank you miss shadix and his next Lynn the ratings.
>> Thank you Linda rate in 6, 5, 7, Lake drive Altamonte
Springs for them right down the road from the time ago also on
ballot Street issue.
I just want to make sure I if you've ever read the arrest
reports I've been to a couple of hearings with a tennis fan
and Brandon Blake cases. If you saw some of the pictures
of the animals and their environment living environment
conditions. Their scars on their face the ones that
weren't healed. The skinny nurse, the lack of it in the
collective care. Maybe if you saw what I've seen you might
say this definitely needs to have a database with that these
criminals can own a dog again and hopefully the other
counties will check Seminole County database once it's up
and running like we would be checking other County databases
and hopefully eventually there will be a statewide database.
You know usually has in many instances. You know that all
related bills are always the last on the agenda.
And the 9, 3, 2, to even move past introduction last year.
Then there was another one that Jason road or I'm trying to get
through 2 on the year before that and
it just didn't move so anyway, that's why we need to do a
county one now I feel that we should do it as soon as they're
convicted. I'm not waiting for the appeals.
Process because
that's a waste of money with waiting for the appeals.
You know like Katrina said you know we're paying our tax
dollars are paying for. The judge is the defendant
attorneys so on and so forth and that a lot of things plea
not guilty. And where there was a lot I was going to say that
it's all confirming so far what could change our Alan Harris
have said with the need to move forward the database and Allen
has done a great job, a better behind him since day one animal
control board approved did.
And you know, I can't see any reason why you wouldn't want to
move forward and I think it's reasonable to go back at least
20 years or whatever you all decided about that but I also
want to make sure that the record once the criminal is on.
Once the but a criminal is on the record is going to be whole
for ever in the future, you know that he is or at least 20
years or whatever something along substantial time and I
think I think that's always said wanted to say I'm Debby to
Reno. I've met her and in person and she's been very
instrumental in trying to
make things right for the animals. That are our view so
we have really appreciate your consideration to move this
forward and we need to do something in the community
can't just ignore it anymore. Thank you miss rating.
Nancy Harman
thank you stepped outside.
Working out their name and address for the apartment 7,
5, 2, pioneer way Geneva Florida.
>> As a member of the Geneva citizens Association will be 6
minutes to be 100% agree with this registry because
in Geneva things get him
and people taking dogs all the time we got to run in the
street, you can look at a village,
a neighborhood.
Their dogs out there for a reason and they're not because
everybody brought in there and so we've got people who are
getting their hound dogs loose their hunting dogs loose.
I don't know for the dogs are what they are but
I think a registry would be good because if the nose starts
to follow the trail we may find other issues going on out there
and we could stop some of the issues that we have with this
population of loose dogs. And and said dogs injured dogs
so from a community standpoint I think people who are abusers
should be recognized they should have a big on their
chest and they're back with a bull's eye. Thank you very much
for your time.
>> So the county attorney has an answer for us on the
question that we had earlier
with regard to the sex offender registry, the names are
required to be put on that registry upon conviction or
education of guilt. And then at such time that that is reversed
or vacated by the court the person can request that that
information be expunged from the registry and the department
that maintains a registry is required to take that
information down with regard to liability. I think that it
would be standard slander libel sort of liability standard if
we were to keep information on there knowing that their
conviction had been released or vacated otherwise as long as
the information is accurate. I think the county's liability
is pretty limited.
Thank you.
>> So commissioner, I have a one to read into the public
record that comment.
So just a little bit about the background.
>> This is Debbie during who works with state attorneys
offices across the state and abroad on animal abuse cases,
she is employed by a law firm during the day which is why she
could not be here.
She has been recognized by governor Rick Scott who
actually came to Ponce Inlet to do a ceremonial bill signing
for the bill that she did pass with regard to Ponce is law
top 10 animal defenders in America.
Lots of lots of accolades. But I will go on to say the
bullet points that she wanted to make sure and you guys all
have this in writing in what has it.
Part of the sentencing when convicted under Ponce is law
allows the court to ban animal abusers from owning and having
contact with animals all the animals and this helps
tremendously when people ask how do we know if someone is
banned and the answers because they can easily look it up on a
registry slash database. The reason for the registry
size databases to help keep these abusers that are
sentenced from easily obtaining an animal whether through
adoption rehoming or any other means it's a resource and tool
meant entirely for the purpose of the safety of animals.
The first month Volusia County's database took effect 2
different convicted abusers went to the local shelter to
adopt out an animal.
They were both in the database that day to animals were safe
from the hands of abusers.
It's proof that the database does achieve the intended
purpose.
It is a great resource tool for animal control officers police
officers rescues and everyday people in community easily look
up the person to make sure they do not have a court order
banning them from contact or owning animals. This is a
public record through the court system already but to save time
and energy trying to maneuver through the court Web site to
find a person's name all you have to do is type in the name
of the person to look it up.
When animal control officers or and or police officers are
called to the address in regards to an animal issue they
can easily type in the person's name before they get to the
address to make sure there's no ban and also know if a person
is in the registry database that they are already a
convicted felon
when the local animal shelters in the adoption process they
can easily look at up to see if the adoptee is convicted of
animal cruelty and also banned from owning contact with the
animals
when rescues are in the adoption process they can
easily look up a person to see if they are convicted of animal
cruelty and banned from owning contact animals.
And when taking in an animal from someone they can also
check to see if that person was banned and now has an animal in
their possession and reported to authorities
when your everyday person wants to rehome there and they can
look up the potential adoptee before rehoming the pet.
Look up your potential roommate
look up your potential roommate or boyfriend, I'm adding or
girlfriend and make sure if you have a pet that those persons
are not convicted animal abusers and your pet is safe.
>> So I'll just say I'm entertaining having a new
boyfriend are. I'm I'm looking for all sorts of convictions
not just animal abuse can be. Ladies
there's lots of different ways we can break the law so that's
great content is there anyone else here who wanted to comment
on this item neglected to fill out a form we did get a comment
card from Mister Humphreys and that was passed down the
diocese and everybody read it.
In approval of yeah,
seeing no other comment will anyone else to comment will
close public comment on this item.
So commissioner her you made a motion to wear. Commissioner
Constantine are you seconding it or is that was that what
your hand raise signaled, I had a question. Okay.
>> So this is a request to bring back.
You know an ordinance for animal for animal registry,
correct. Now that's not an ordinance just we're just
looking for direction from the board to move forward with the
page and commissioner, her does your motion still exist and
have it that they do it. After the conviction is that
part of the motions okay, then I second the motion.
>> All right, there's a motion and a second any further
discussion.
All those in favor say aye aye any opposed motion passes
unanimously.
I'm going to ask that we take a 10 minute break if we can get
back at 11 '05 to take up. Item number 26.
>> The room.
>> Ladies and gentlemen, we're going to reconvene are meeting
here if you are here for the next item.
Please feel free to have a seat and if you would like to not be
here for the next item well can I leave. But we are going to
resume our meetings.
So item number 26 is special event permit for the wekiva
Island fall festival and it is being this item is being
presented by Mary Robinson.
>> And thank you, madam chair, Mary Robinson for the record
planning and development. 26 for your on your agenda is a
request for a special event permit for that will cause the
Highland fall fast located 1014 Miami strip spring try.
The event is scheduled for Saturday at over 20. Monday
October 30th and Saturday November about that
hours of operation are 08:00AM to 11:00PM on October 28th and
November 11th and the applicant choosing has requested 08:00AM
to 09:00PM on Monday October 30th.
The normal closing time on that day would be 07:00PM.
The applicant has stated 95 guests at any given time will
town.
The event includes a Halloween costume contests Springs and
streams concert. And a big a cooking demonstration.
A bull horn, a microphone will be used during the Halloween
costume contests in the big green egg. Demonstration and
that will be the extent
that leased the amplified sound in addition to the concert.
Staff received a copy of an email yesterday that one didn't
agreement that was made between these Sweetwater Springs H.O.A.
and the app can too address the kind of condition number 4 in
the special event which addresses amplified sound and
the H.O.A. has requested that the condition be changed to
near the same condition and them we know wonderland that
addresses amplified sound
and winter wonderland a condition number 4 for
amplified sound addresses DB A and BC levels of sound
that was taken from the sound study that was done last year.
So that's something for the board to consider
the special event her lead and you can include to finance and
conditions of approval staff is recommending the board approve
the special event permit
for the wekiva Island fall fest 2023.
Any questions for miss Robinson.
>> Mister Dunbar and then commissioner Constantine thank
you from
thank you for for bringing up the e-mail
my question is for staff
knowing
for years.
That there has been a sound problem
and that we've endeavored upon a sound study which this County
84 for a private entity.
Why was that not a consideration as far as part of
the process.
It was just an oversight Commission.
All right. Thank you.
Mister Constantine
I just wanted to reiterate is a question to you Mary.
>> That it and talking but with both sides individually that
they did as we have suggested recommended gotten together
before this have we agreed to agree on the recommendations
that you're presenting including the including the the
noise, a language that you just suggested.
>> Yes, it's my understanding and it's also outlined in the
email that was something that came.
An agreement.
Any other questions for miss Robinson.
Applicant here and would you like to make a presentation.
>> Warning like ours here we have full of islands 75 want
the ability to Tampa Florida. We're completely in agreement.
If it please the board we could have missed a Merck about just
verify the contents of the e-mail that we're all in
agreement.
>> I think there are any other questions all right. Thank you
any questions for Mister towers.
Members of the public who are here who is wish to speak have
Jeff stammer Mister summer.
>> Warning ways and gentlemen my name is just were 3616 and
watercress drive Longwood see water Springs community H.O.A.
president.
I think as a president I get a few more minutes, but I do need
them here welcome to them. I will try to hold down the
combined comments for both the special guests and what comment
to get through.
I don't know why even repeat who I am and that because you
guys hear me say it 2 or 3 times a year for the past 3 or
4 years.
The thing is different because that the first time in 16 years
is what kind of violent bought their property and member of
our H.O.A. is here not disagreeing with the special
that but actually saying they are and approval of it
like to take the company to explain how the candidate not
because a fascinating story wouldn't be able to go to sleep
tonight, knowing what happened but
but because I think it was a foundation that if we continue
to utilize it going forward these DCC meetings with these
that's come up like become a little bit shorter this
contentious and I doubt anybody here would have a problem with
that so.
You watch your driving has been clear to everybody in the
system and the guards, these special events has been like
with that were broken because the same thing happens every
single time.
You know, I'll come in and they would ask for a special events
and they would ask for a little bit more than you gave them
last year people hours, whatever and my neighborhood
water action is a oh my God, no you can't do that don't get
anything extra and while you're at it you hear something today,
Washington really should take away.
When you guys would be that some time talking about it in
with voting the net result was pretty much the same every time
you guys would not give them what they ask for what we asked
what you can do the same thing you're approved for the same of
the party here.
Same number of hours a number of people said number you know
it was pretty much the same resolve so when they call a
couple weeks ago we got the board we side let's try
something dramatically different. Well, let's just sit
down say what let's not put down what your aspirations
goals are are ours. Let's just make this special that details
exactly why the BCC actually approved the prior year the
same people same hours say what bunch and they do that.
So our hope our evil plan if you will is that going forward
we can replicate this every time so that next time their
special that's come in here we're not in a contentious long
drawn-out battle that takes over time and frankly doesn't
get a whole lot of difference also we're going to give it a
shot. There's 3 things that have to happen for this to
happen continuously that that's our goal.
One abortion all the violence to continue to live up to its
obligations under the development order that goes
without saying they have to continue to work with your
customers and their staff to manage the special events in a
way that does not negatively impact. The residents who live
nearby. And finally when they do so the 3rd future special
events they have to not add any in criminal and ask him to
those special events like more people more hours or days,
whatever, and if they do those 3 simple things like that.
Hope is here that you guys will no longer see a stand here are
going back and forth and your meetings for the rest of time.
That's our that's our plan let's see what happens.
I'm not a Pollyanna this does not solve all the issues
between our 2 or 2 businesses or residences and you may even
hear you know some other folks coming to talk about other
issues that exist
to address that and do something different I reached
out to the island they've agreed to sit for another
sit-down meeting we're going to talk to some issues with the
developer can see if we can come to we actually acceptable
solutions.
I don't know do you try so we'll give it a shot and let
you know how that goes.
Why do something never done before so forgive me because
this is new territory. But I want to say something nice.
Politicians and public so forget because this is a
suspect joking aside for casting it humid of all this
whole process once again and it's been a very unpleasant
process and sometimes for you personally.
But throughout it all you have been
you've been steadfast and your desire. For the 2 parties to
come together and talk face to face and try to work things out
for it ever gets different sport takes up their time
and I'll be the first to tell you that we started that
process years ago, I didn't think there's a snowball's
chance in heck that whatever meant the squad, but I'm here
today because I was wrong and you're right, it's all we did
enough to something and that's thanks to your leadership.
So. Thank you Sir, thank you and that's pretty much it for
me I appreciate everybody's time and attention this
morning. Thank you thank you. Mister staver
are there any other members of the public who wish to speak on
this item.
I will close public comment.
>> MS. Robison anything else you would like to add.
No mention of hate.
>> Commissioner cost yes on miss miss Robinson, I just want
to make sure
in moving forward, I know that I've talked to both sides.
Prior to this in moving forward.
I'm going to make as part of the motion that the language
that we have when it comes to the noise will be incorporated
in every one of the future. Special events they both agree
to that I'm not saying anything that Mister towers or that
Mister steamer have not already said yes to I just want to make
sure that they cause you and the staff no problem in doing
that whatever the commission desires for him.
Implement there.
Then commissioners if I can I will prove item number 26.
Can't to 27 together will do that in a second vote for 26.
And part of that will be that moving forward during special
events that the language concerning the decibel level
and the noise will be incorporated in every other
future a second special event one by. Commissioner.
>> Constantine second by commissioner zembower
Commission under discussion commissioner, her.
This one a.
>> Clarify a little bit. So I think what we're doing on
this item is taking the
item number 4 out of the next item to supplanting it into
this special event permit to understand that correctly.
Yes, so that, and all futures and future see and so item
number 4 in the next item is specific so
I think that motion needs to be clear that the day to be
adjusted to accomplish whatever it is in the email
that I suspect as state Senate.
Well, thank you very if I can.
>> Thank you very much commissioner in and that would
be well excepted yes, they did that become even though the
other one was time specific to dig specific that we make them
all day specific to the future. Special events.
>> Commissioners of our I agree S again, I don't know why we're
having this discussion this isn't such a topic of
contention.
I mean when I was I wasn't planning and zoning I met with
these folks.
You're the commissioner at the time.
I thought this was all washed out it continues to kit
every year, it's something new we drew the line in the sand,
I thought
with the sound study that was at least my understanding was
going to be
the line in the sand for the noise and be part and parcel
every special exception. And that's why I asked the
question is that why why wasn't this part of
the review process and I think
hopefully
this occurs moving forward and maybe it needs to be
incorporated amended into the development
to be done with it.
I will follow I'm just asking that question standpoint.
Well, legal team,
maybe that
what staff changes over time, you know these things happen.
We have a situation here where just over the world. Only one
but not the one that's happening at the same meeting
same deal.
Maybe that's something we should be looking at.
>> Commissioner Constantine to thank you. I did ask that
question already commissioner zembower as far as putting it
in the development order. These are for special
exceptions we can do them for every special exception moving
forward.
I'm neither one of the sides at least I'm saying this. But I've
talked to them would be objectionable to putting it in
the development order but we would have to do that in a
separate Dayton in a separate occasion. So I just wanted to
make sure that everybody knew that we had discussed that
option
and that get it, let's let's be having you guys this isn't
going to be they're all they're out there together and we've
all had this problem that we you know trying to come up with
the right answer and splitting the baby and all the other
stuff.
You know both sides agree to this, I congratulate both sides
I thank them because one of the development orders was that
they sit down to talk to each other each and every time
they're doing that and I and so if you want to do the
development order later. Let's you know, I mean I think
that we could discuss that I just don't want to you.
>> We get to all the most trying to do is prevent this
from happening 5.10 years from now we have a developing more
which talks about special exceptions one not just a core
part of the sound level and because of that.
>> So for the sake of this particular motion and the
special event permit and we want to make sure that the
record reflects we're taking a special event not a special
exception, I know it's easy to do, but just so we're clear so
I think commissioner who was just trying to make a
clarification to make the motion even clear on
extenuating extending that that language out into all future
events special event requests. There's a motion and second any
further discussion. All those in favor say aye aye any
opposed motion passes unanimously and all the things
all the things right.
Item number 27 wekiva Island winter wonderland special event
permit miss Robin is thank you madam chair.
>> For the record Mary Robinson, the planning and
development division item 27 on your agenda is a request for
work, I would wonder land special event permit located at
1014 Miami Springs, try.
But before review the request would like to direct your
attention to the amended staff report a special event permit
we distributed this morning in an effort to summarize the
applicant's proposed special event for the winter wonderland
I stated originally the month of December and the comment in
the end in the staff report, however, an actuality the of
them is proposing only a specific date in December and
those are outlined an attachment to which is part of
the special event permit said Impala just turning cause
confusion this may have caused.
Again the event schedule within the month of December with the
exception of December 8, 9, 1522, 2324, 2529, when events
are scheduled.
Most of those states are Friday and Saturday is with the
exception of December, 2425.
And again attention to outline all the events that will occur
during those days it consist of having snow flurries, Christian
sites. The AP party in outdoor movies.
The applicant is also requesting to expand the hours
of operation
to 08:00AM to 09:00PM on Sundays through Thursday in the
08:00AM to 07:00PM outlined in the wekiva Island development
order.
Staff recommends the Board of County commissioners approved
the special event for the when wonderland
the question and answer any questions questions for miss
Robinson.
>> The only thing I would add areas that when you are reading
the dates in December, the only date that you left out was a
30th.
Well that's our that's OK I want to make sure we got that
on the record that was
with the applicant like to make another presentation or
address, the board.
All right let the record reflect he said no, but started
to step forward and the sea.
>> All right.
Mister towers is and it does not need to address the board
again is there anyone here who would like to address the board
on this item Jill Eliana
was he Leon, a.
>> Hi my name is Joe you really 1044 beer ducks here since we
were Springs, I live between what kind and sweet for over 40
years. So I've spent
many days and hours. Springs Road. My issue with this
what I am a special events is parking and a pass, a T the Deo
says and they're special I'm requests as site promises is
pretty side parking is prohibited, it happens every
time it happens every weekend. They have purchased property up
the hill, the employee's part there there's probably 20
parking spaces, police parked there we see customers
returning from oak Island that are fair and walk in. So I made
it my mission since the picture says a 1000 words I have some
pictures I'd like to share walk-ins and then also have
parking I want to also say that we're still dealing with the
right kind of protection Act and the Deo so those things are
being ignored at some point.
There's constant assigned parking
at their property.
A Baptist Church. Publix suntrust
truist excuse me. I was a picture that I also have I
witness Mister Weiner dog on their tanks asked going behind
the Baptist Church again I have pictures
coming off areas and roping off areas on there property that is
on the kind of Springs road to assemble parking. So parking is
still an issue rock Inc is still issue it happens all the
time happens mostly on the weekends and of course during
special events. This also impacts
access to the park because State Park so if you're a
turnaround from the island you get in line for the park and
the parking is horrendous. The traffic is horrendous.
Finally they put up a sign that said you're allowed to call on
the grass and that has helped tremendously but it took how
many years to get that.
I have more pictures.
I have pictures of the building. My other concern of
the building. I have there was never any kind of permit posted
we put it to Ernst plant Burns on our walls of our subdivision
and we have to have a display permit for that so I don't know
what the situation is with the rehab of that building and the
use of the parking lot but it should be banned because of the
statement in the Deo unfortunately also have to say
that we had our first fatality on Miami Springs strides this
year and that has not happened before so hopefully that will
improve. Thank you.
Thank you miss you and any questions from a ceiling on it.
>> Anybody wanting more pictures shared on where to
take those pictures and evidence we do yeah, I'll leave
those with the clerk.
If you, yeah, so anything the show to the board you have to
leave here with the board, but if you would.
>> Like to submit those electronically the ones that
you showed I am sure the clerk would be happy for that as well
as I am looking for head. Nods yes, no electronic now.
What would you prefer.
I don't mind standing these her but just to make sure I have a
record.
Okay is your e-mail on this year. For yes, me and all the
rest.
>> I'm just patients. Those pictures were taken between
sue 11 of 22 and July of 23. So that's over a year's worth
of photos. Thank you thank you very much.
>> Any other members of the public who wish to address item
number 27.
Seeing none we'll close public comment.
Robinson do you have anything else you'd like to add or just
to the rim and this from a kind Island. Wish to address the
board give you an opportunity since summer.
There is public comment.
We will and 30 per 53 tally with a long Florida as we make
a comment about parking of the church for excess last year we
were flooded.
So we got permission.
So I just want to comment on that and we do I walk in
somewhere not a city we do not allow walk-ins at capacity.
I answer the phone every day. And I tell everybody we have no
off site for people so customers do not get told that
can propel swear.
Thank you miss one appreciate it.
Any other questions.
Mister Constantine yeah I was going to say that that I think
the development order does allow walk-ins when you're not
at capacity.
>> So I just want to make sure that everybody understood that
that was part of the development of water and I am
I I would appreciate the understand I do appreciate the
understanding of what has been given and the pictures that to
you that you watch out for that and I know you've been trying
to do that area very much when you
when it comes to parking off site parking and everything
else so
I I I again I applaud both sides for trying to work
together and
I look forward to that continuing of that happening
and I hope that you feel comfortable man in calling them
up if you have if you have a problem because
that is part of the development order that they have given you
the phone numbers and everything like that so with
that I will move to approve the item for the winter wonderland
special event permits for the dates of one December 1st 33 to
7.10 to 14 to 16 through the 21st 2627 28 and the 31st
second.
With all the conditions apply.
>> I'm just asking for clarification and miss Robinson
if you could are is it all of December except for those
dates. No these are the dates for it.
>> No it's all a December 7th for this specific dates entered
into the record and I did leak out the 30th and I will go and
put those states if you prefer instead of the dates that it's
going to happen.
>> The data that's not going to make sure that when the when
the minutes are recorded that it's it's the bend is for
all of December except for those dates that you just read
into the record.
>> 8.19 15th 2215th 232215th 24232215th 2524232215th
292524232215th and 30th.
Hey Mary just isn't.
>> So there's a motion by commissioner Constantine and
commissioner zembower seconded it
any other discussion all those in favor say aye aye any
opposed motion passes unanimously, thank you.
Item number 28 is the airbase comprehensive plan update.
Mister Reid and and this giuliana from the heart.
>> Good morning for the record Tyler Reed senior planner for
planning and development services.
I'm introducing the 3rd BCC work session for the evaluation
and appraisal report years and ends
that year in your face amendments rated the results of
the public visioning process that took place last year and
was referred to as envision Seminole 2045.
That year based amendments are based on the evaluation and
appraisal report of the comprehensive plan that was
approved by the Board of County commissioners on November,
1520 22.
The Board of County commissioners preview
previously had to work sessions on August 8th between 23 and
September 1220 23.
In addition, a work session for the Seminole County land
planning agency took place on 10/4/2023.
A community meeting took place on 8/17/2023.
We're consulting allies. And here's Giuliani is here
from kenley war
to present the latest update to the air base, the maintenance
staff will be on hand to answer any questions.
>> And I know a mystery to mention that this is a work
session, we're not voting on this item this is for feedback
from the board.
Good morning, everyone, I'm allies airs Giuliano coming on.
We're in the area.
So as Tyler mentioned the sector work session this
actually and out on specifically to address
questions that came out of the second work sessions of this
will be a little bit shorter than our previous discussions
which is good because I'm standing between you and much.
So our our 3rd hopefully last work session here on the
center's and quarters overlay that we have to focus here was
the center's headquarters overlay the second one is
clustering and then we also have a little bit of discussion
on septic.
And I'm I did skip on the previous slide just going back
to that we do have a transmittal deadline for this
which is November and that's based on when we submitted the
the air report to the state.
So going to the center's in quarters overlay
just to back out for a second I want to review the goal with
this it's under which is grown walkable active places this
came out of the envision Seminole 2045 goals. I'm
encouraging efficient use of land a variety of housing
choices, economic vibrancy and multi-modal transportation.
We identified a need as part of the vision report for taking a
look at the urban centers and quarters policy because
essentially it's been in place for a decade and not much
activity has happened under it, including some long vacant.
Parcels that are in the overlay as well as commercial
properties that that could use. I'm updating the current
densities do not support the technology's envisioned in
addition to all 2045.
We showed slashed, I'm sure it's an economic analysis not
going to go into all the details but essentially,
the blue shows surface part multi-family residential and
the greens shows structured parking
and essentially that the densities that are currently
allowed in the overlay which talk about it 20 units per acre
not sufficient to encourage based on this economic
analysis. The kind of redevelopment that that's
envisioned or any had read about and that's that's
appealing to the private sector.
This is the map of the area that we're talking about so the
areas in pink and
blue are all of the centers and corners the centers are in blue
and the quarters are in pink.
We also discussed during our last 2 work sessions, the
possibility of focusing this effort a little bit using the
mobility fee district's the urban mobility fee district is
surrounded by that blue.
Outside the blue line which covers basically between 1792
and I 4 as well as up and down for 36, so we as part of this
effort we put a little more specificity around that and
what we've said is our recommended policy would have
language that would identify the urban centers in quarters
that are wholly or partially within the mobility area.
Through a an overlay to be defined in land development
code so we want the actual mask to appear in the land of almond
code so that it can be tweaked overtime should this should the
county and you additional studies that would would
justify changing the boundaries. But it would be
essentially based on that mobility area but we also don't
want to tie it to the mobility area specifically because if
that changes over time don't want to have unintended
consequences.
We also want to call out we've talked in in high level terms
about that and xd zone that's the mixed use development
future land use district
on the math you see in front of you the dark red areas are the
annexed the properties, those are within the that that are
located within the urban search Center's Encores I believe all
the xt that's currently existing in the county is
within the urban centers and quarters over late.
But you can see that more precisely here.
And one reason we're showing that use because we're
recommending a little bit different standards for next
year versus the urban centers in quarters. Overlay
so not going into all the detail that I went to last
time, I'm going touch go over some high-level issues and well
as well as some what's changed.
Part of what we've done is we've look specifically at an
xd within the urban center some quarters overlay and here are
recommending that you would be able that a development that
seeking to develop under the nxt standards which got to 60
units in acre within the urban centers in quarters with some
in a site plan consistent with a new CD standards but wouldn't
actually have to go through a rezoning process to add new CD.
They still would be eligible for certain bonuses for green
building affordable housing that currently exist within the
overlay the restart with nxt and that goes up to a maximum
of 80 units an acre I apologize I don't have the fdr's on here
but those haven't changed since we last presented this going up
too 1.4 and a maximum.
If they want to access. That Center's a quarterly quarters,
overlay standards they would be subject rezoning consistent
with that
outside the center's headquarters and I said next
currently doesn't exist anywhere outside of the urban
centers in quarters but should they they apply for a future
land use amendment to access that they would then they would
have to go through zoning process to end the city as well
so they they would have a higher bar to go over there
outside the urban centers and Carter's overlay
now within the urban service Center's Encores overlay they
can access those and you see the standards without a future
land use amendment that they do have to rezone a new CD.
And then they would be asked they be able to access the
density and intensity in the overlying some actually going
kind of reiterate that piece here so this is focusing on the
urban centers of course overlay
as a whole without the focus on nxt
so within this Center's in quarters as a whole we split
this up per the recommendation.
The core area again that roughly corresponds to that
urban mobility fee area.
That's where the highest since these would be permitted up to
75 units an acre and 1.5 F are in addition to compliance with
that the overlay standards
outside of that you the maximum density would be 50 units an
acre and one point as they are that is of that is higher than
what's currently in the plan.
Consistent with our finding that the the current densities
weren't were consistent with the development
opportunities and then that's for the higher intensity which
would be allowed on non-residential you have to
underline non-residential future land use category.
They also would have the opportunity to
access the missing middle alternative standards with a
with a higher densities this actually under those standards
he wouldn't be able to reach 75 acre because Cesar much much
lower intensity projects
and we're talking a little bit more about the missing or
turned standards in just a minute. Now if you have an
underlying residential flu. Last time we talked we have the
maximum density for that 35 at 50 units in acre we produce at
a 35 units an acre based on further study we also included
a point to if they are to deal with that non-residential piece
that would be to potentially happen there and then outside
of that core area with limited to 20 is maker which was the
maximum density on centers in quarters already.
And this case again you have to come why for all the
residential areas up comply with the missing that
alternative standards
and I'll tell you a little more about what that means in just a
minute.
So we wanted to talk about the standards that go with this.
We've mentioned the you see the standards over and over again
and we told you that they that day help us to accomplish the
vision.
But I wanted to address some of the specific elements of a new
CD that would address concerns that come up so some key
standards.
NBC comes in 2 flavors that this is the land development
code standards which you are you've been interviewing over
the past year that are not part of this year but are helping to
implement this and you've got a leg up here essentially because
usually we do the comp plan and then we do the lbc because
you've already done the LDC standards we already drafted
them, you know what you're getting into with these higher
densities with more specificity
so the standards and the city is a maximum of 6 stories if
you're in the high classification or 3 stories if
you're in the low classification
and we've also looked at step backs to avoid what people some
people call it can in effect so what that means is what you get
to this if you're in low once you get the second story have
to step back the rest of the building as you see on the top
illustration so than anything beyond that would would be
further back in that kind of reduces that that feeling
people describe it.
If you're in the high category going up to 6 stories that
break happens at 3.
We also have a minimum of 25 foot setbacks on made a 25 foot
setback on major streets like 1792, and that is higher than
some of the examples that people have brought up as areas
of concerns so we we did look at that over a year ago a look
at some of those examples that are out there look to the good
the bad and identified that we need a little bit more room for
that frontage area on these major roads.
And that's where most people who don't live in these
developments are going to be experiencing them from.
Another thing that I I think what we're going to deal with
that later.
Now this is just the same same chart again, but now we're
going to be focusing on the right side of the chart which
is the residential underlying future land use.
And this is where another piece of land development code work
been doing over the past year comes into play so the missing
middle alternative standards mentioned this number of times
something that's that's critical here is to understand
that the missing middle standards modulating what you
can do based on the underlying zoning and the underlying
future land use so if you're underline zoning is our one.
You can even under as close you can do to flex to be limited to
smaller lot single family or college course.
And then as you go up in the underlying zoning categories
you have access to more and more talk policies, including
duplexes triplexes townhouses in some cases, those are
limited in size, so if you want to do a multi unit building
that's going to fit into an existing neighborhood, you
don't want each unit to then be 2000 square feet on 20 June to
be the size of a house so we've limited the overall size of the
structures to fit into these existing neighborhoods.
Now doing the further analysis that comes with this
comprehensive plan amendment. We may be recommending some
adjustments in the upcoming scope for the land development
code, including looking at.
Well there was a higher proportion of properties that
we anticipated that have ndr medium density residential
future land use. And an R one zoning.
So we are we do think that's worth a second. Look we're not
recommending that change at this time, but as we get into
the next process taking a second look at that and seeing
if maybe those actually should come up and have more Tech
colleges that are allowed if they do have that medium
density residential future land use which indicates that the
county think they're appropriate for a little more
intense development
but fundamentally the the maximum type of
building that could be constructed under this missing
middle isn't just allowed everywhere. It's moderated by
what your name what you're zoning is that usually is going
to match what your neighbor zoning us.
These can also be used. In a new development like a
redevelopment of a commercial property and that would be a
very different situation and you be allowed a much broader
range of uses including more intense. The more tense time
college ease. You also have the opportunity to do APD or
missing middle zone while complying with the standards
and that gives you access to more typology says well,
but it also gives you more oversight in how that's
constructed it would be a single lot of development.
I also want to just do this. Brief exercise and this feeds
into a little bit why lower the density but also just to talk
about what dense you looks like in a very urban context,
we're talking about single lot development so a single lot
that exist. It's in the urban centers and cars overlay it's
not the only size it exists little bit on the smaller side,
but it is 50 by one 30 lot that would be for 1, 5, acres.
So the density of one House on that lot. It's 6.7 units an
acre.
So as you go up to duplexes triplexes of course that's it's
pretty easy math, but you know on the high side if you're
talking about a 6, 5, 6, plaques and one building that's
35 units in acre so just to give people a sense of what
we're talking about but even duplexes that's almost 14
units, an acre.
One thing that we've also added based on feedback from we're
intending to advice and feedback from the board is a
compatibility policy.
This would be explicit about the need for compatibility and
transitions that could be further fleshed out in the land
development code we think we've already addressed some of that
they're offering standards in the land development. There's a
high condition already and in and you see the so we talked
about the the 3 in the 6 stories within a 100 feet of
residential you're already limited to 3 stories
are existing single family residential.
But that ability policy opens the door for us to further find
that through this process.
So that's it for the urban center some quarters overlay
for the chair would you like me to continue on to clustering or
address any questions on this topic are there any questions.
Let's move on to clustering
so clustered about it you asked us to bring back some more
tangible examples of what we're talking about here and there's
basically
2
Ed's there's the genetic thing that we did in high school you
remember with the for what it's called
2 different options. But that ends up with 4 combinations but
it's where they are.
So the 2 options are we looking at a minimum of one acre lots
are minimum halfacre lost and we looking at I just within our
10 of density bonus or no density bonus. Now there's also
clustering within multiple
different land use category so we're just we're just looking
at one land use category because we didn't want to show
you
12 examples or more.
So this is the first scenario so no density bonus with one
acre lots we come up on this 97 acre
sky 7 and half acres of buildable land we come up with
9 units.
At one per 10.
Now this is half acre lots so I again, 9 units at one per 10 on
97 acres just to flash back and forth a little bit what were
illustrated here is you get a little bit more open space as
those lots get smaller.
I'm now doing that density bonus scenario again on that 97
acres, the bonus. In this instance, get you up to 16
units.
And that's on one acre lots and this is 16 units off of this
actually 19 units because you can fit given a lecture Watson
there when you go down to lot size.
19 units again at with that 80% preserved open space.
I also know you are not
designed in this the service of that exercise not sign exercise
so they're certainly more flourishes one could put that
especially as we're trying to say we want to exactly half an
acre lots and exactly one acre lots that doesn't give our
designers a lot of flexibility in how to design so that you
hire says I will be it will be pretty.
So just to go to the tradeoffs essentially.
Half acre lots are allowed. We have the benefit would be
more preserve open space as the law to get smaller generally
speaking more space could potentially be preserved.
Now that's a minimum size maximums they could do larger
lots.
It also provides some flexibility to respond to site
conditions you can fix those lots in places that you
couldn't fit a larger lot.
Larger lot benefits mainly would be associated with large
lots are more associated with that rural lifestyle
in terms of the density bonus. The benefit that we would
identify would be that it could accelerate conservation
easements because if there's a greater and that is to develop
that land incentivized by the bonus than that conservation
easement can get in place soon it sooner the drawback is
ultimately it means you can fit war units in the rural area.
So this is all for I'm all for illustration on one slide,
so you can see them together.
And happy to come back to that I do want to go forward to talk
about the camp septic before we. Before we address that just
because there is some overlap
so the advanced septic requirements you ask for some
feedback. Additional feedback on that. These are more and
more steady numbers in terms of cost. So you can see fentanyl
goes from 11,002 15,900 the advanced over last with that
but those can go potentially considerably higher up to
25,000 in terms of initial installation and the passive
falls within that similar range.
The annual maintenance costs on the advanced is higher, it's
also higher on the pass is based on the study that's been
done.
The passive does have a somewhat increased acreage
requirement.
For square footage requirement.
Now the
the feedback that we have from the engineering group the
environmental group is that the
these lot sizes can be down us as low as a quarter of 8 and
anchors so that's what I want to talk about the and have the
question the clustering relative to the lot size and
generally speaking it doesn't look like a half acre lots are
going to be a huge barrier to using those septic systems.
I also read a little bit of math on the well this is coming
up here. Yes,
we'll get the second bullet first the passive system in
Christ increases the size of the drain field to 600 square
feet set of 450 square feet on a half acre lot we're talking
about 3% of the lot so it's not
not a huge impact on. Last
bullet 0.1 that address the question about medications.
Essentially the big concern is Flushing unused medications and
those will damage any septic system regardless of whether
it's advanced or or conventional, if you have more
questions about that I will defer to the specialist.
And so that that concludes my presentation happy to respond
as needed.
Questions for miss Juliana
I do.
>> Want to go back to your slide.
It's number 23 with my space 23.
And started a cluster in the Aurora area tradeoffs.
So talk to me about
the bottom item.
More units in a rural area or so.
Let's just take a round number the easy to tease him out 1500
acres.
And I have zone one per 5.
Given how many units.
>> The 300 and it's my turn and just to clarify that that's
density bonuses not applicable to one per 5, it's only put the
doubles one for 10 and a map this year.
>> Haha
well taken so I can get
150 units we'll touch on that
if I want to on us.
I get what
you get double the number gets a 300 units to that.
What's the difference in open green space.
>> So the requirement so just looking at the illustrations
that we did to the density bonus right.
>> I understand that could be based on
how the way and lays out as well and how much is uplands I
got all that,
let's just take a standard parcel sure.
>> So based on what we did the the difference in open space.
So you are because you're required to have 80% open space
not required by the way is in the land development code not
in the comp plan for keeping the density bonus we may want
to add that to the comprehensive plan for clarity
exactly so the but we were going with that plan
development reporter for the firemen of 80% open space
essentially with 80% open space requirement we we have with
basically the same amount of open space in both scenarios
and part of that is because we actually couldn't get the full.
One acre lots but essentially there was no difference in open
space in this scenario.
>> Thank you so the whole goal really is if our goal is to
give as much open space as possible.
I think that's the direction I would say
the most green space the most conservation access.
It is where I'm at when it comes to clustering.
>> And commissioner zembower just for clarification is that
in the rural area only or in in any
>> and I will question the minute I think
I think it will I think what we've heard from the public
their desires. They want more green space.
Okay, so if you're going to get more green space.
And our goal is to accomplish more green space is we have to
close during such a fashion that promotes more green space.
Well why zing the property owner or they're not going to
go to the cost.
What they're going to go with the standard development
practice. It's a benefit they're gaining and the benefit
the public gets is more open space or and or conservation.
What we've seen is
a delicate
shell game.
By some that want close tree under some conditions but not
on others because it benefits due to wetlands impacts and so
forth that we wouldn't do it here, but it's OK to do it over
here.
So I think we've got to be consistent.
On what it is we really want that we want more open space or
do we not
well more open space.
So and of course also have to keep in mind
with Seminole forever.
We're going to have more kids case for green areas if we
continue to purchase things like golf courses and so forth
and the urban area and we're talking already about
increasing green spaces and standards development with
minimum requirements and part of the problem I have and
jumping out of the septic system is
that's all fine and good until somebody wants to shed a
swimming pool.
Some other structure on their property after the development
has been built.
So now I think what I'm hearing is that if we go to these
super
systems,
we need more property to do that
it's more expensive which then drives the cost of the homes of
4 trying to promote affordability we just push that
further up the line for less affordability because
what we know the septic tank cost more money, the donors
passing that on to the to the end by or they're not observing
that.
How are we going to control limiting
future coming in. I want to put a shed or want to swim poll.
That's going to impact that tremendously.
So I think we've got a look at
how that all plays out I'm not in favor of the the most
expensive option when it comes to the septic systems.
>> So I just wanna make sure for my clarity
when we talked about it advanced systems earlier you
mentioned that the result was that there is really no
difference in the need for space between the conventional
and the advanced the extra space comes in with that
passive is that right right. Okay, yeah, the advance,
I mean her the diagram the best fans can actually result in
more available space okay.
So I'll Sunday clarity because we're really good at bringing
in extra curricular topics and my right side, so I need to try
and to focus though we're talking about clustering in the
rural area for this conversation or cracks
yes, more open space for sure I hear that all the time I also
hear Earl character.
All the time and
a one acre lot.
It is
is more rural in character than a half acre lot haha right and
so I'm trying to balance in my brain.
>> The the crew.
The Santa list
of things like that. It's there are. There are wish lists from
every constituency of what we would like and most of the time
it's we want to have our cake and eat it too and that's not a
bad thing you can want to have your cake and eat it too.
But I just want to make sure that we're we're not
taking open space as a primary over
character I because I think he I think they're both important
for my hearing from the public and 5 for the intent of this
for the purposes of this conversation might.
Yeah, I kind of I want like a head nod or at like you're off
base or yeah, that's your eye that organizes this in my
brain.
I mean we're we're honestly just framing the tradeoffs
because they are indeed tradeoffs we had this hammock
and then commissioner her and then commissioner Constantine.
>> Thank you to a commissioner Lockhart for the record back to
him that I would serve as director and just to clarify
the feedback that we're trained or the policy direction that
we're turning to receive from the commission. The issue here
is are some inconsistency is between arklow certain
provisions within the land development code and the
conference of plan so within the rural area, you can crossed
or and or any of the future land use designations and if
you do cluster, which means you start to maintain your
allowable density per year future land use designation but
you can have a minimum lot size of a half acre. But we also
have within our 10 future land use designation and in the
course of course finding a 10's owning district the ability to
have a density bonus which that requires the 80% open space
requirement but then within the other future land use
designations you can quest are dead and a half acre with 50%
open space and then are 10 a 10. You can cluster. With 80%
but that actually with that density bonus that requires a
minimum lot size of one acre so that's where we're trying to
creating consistency between the 2 were trying to get a
policy direction and we want to allow half acre in all of the
some areas within the rural area or do we want to just
allow the minimum lot size of one acre.
I think are versus one acre okay, thank you for clarifying
that.
>> Not on complicated situation. Commissioner,
her desire him go first so
from my perspective.
If you look didn't start with bottom left.
And then bottom right
and those are about the same number of units.
Do you agree.
It's there's 3 in a different view so pretty close to it.
I think it's actually.
>> To me feels more world and bottom right that doesn't
bottom left if you look at the proximity of all of those lots
to the neighboring plots of land.
So bottom right gives you the opportunity for more about for
more open space.
And because it set far back off of the road.
But actually you know it's a different feel
from a community perspective, less you know it was back there
you might not expect there.
I think I think the spent just give them in these are
tradeoffs, I'm just giving you my opinion
why I think if you're
I think the issue that the community has to commissioners
in Bowers point is that we have clustered in the more.
In the other areas of the county so that we have
literally cluster the entire lot bumped right up against the
other lots.
And I've been part of that because we've had to do lots
that were in between other lots that it already has that done
to it and so
and at some point I'd recommend that we find a word other than
cluster because I take a lot of heat for this in the public
just some just in terms of humor into this thing it's a
cluster that's a cost or and so
I do think there is the tradeoff is worth it and that
may not only the I realize that when we talk about the rural
areas. But this notion that we're creating open space in
other parts of the community as well
is important.
>> And by the way lies that this is a magic graphic,
yeah, super we could have had this discussion all day long
and all been conjuring up different images of it so this
is really want present. Commissioner Constantine are
you saying.
My take is from this policy we're talking about policy
we're asking for direction. Here in the future and I do
believe that we're tough and again
as he's been clarified we're talking about the world area
of the county and I do believe that there is a a a a flavor.
But the rural area that the more we make the lots smaller
the less it is World War.
We're putting in that kind of
that the citizens have come to enjoy and that area and
something that we fought for so hard in the rule boundary.
So to me.
Again, I've said this before
ask any developer of the greatest
bonus
to a cluster.
Is the fact that it costs less to build because they are
together as opposed to separate not the fact they get
additional units necessarily
and anyway that shouldn't that shouldn't fall into our
equation.
So to me you know if you're looking at the 4 I think that
the know density bonus one minimum acre
is the way to go in the rural area.
>> How many chickens can I get in the bottom right Bob.
I'm just kidding just kidding commissioner zembower.
>> So staff could be a fair assessment.
Based on one of those now.
What changes on any of the some areas
based on what is permissible now.
Can you walk through each one of these and tell us how that
impacts
we exist under
a 10 day 5.
And the rural area.
>> So is the board were to give us direction that any type of
clustering subdivision within the rural areas of required to
be a minimum of one acre it won't impact what's currently
allowed in a 10 R 10 but it will impact the other future
land use and or the other future land use category.
Well actually the impact all of them other than the density
bonus provisions right now the density bonus provisions
require a minimum of one acre lot size but for any other type
of clustering within the rural area, it would impact those
because right now you can cluster within the world rule
area down to a minimum of a half acre lot size.
>> So my my my position would be is
at the end of the day that's one for 5 shooting one, you
know 5 acres that's one for 10 1 being on 10 acres.
The clustering was brought in back when the entire world
boundary was being contemplated to help property owners.
See some benefit. Staying in the rule boundary versus asking
to be out of the rule boundary and getting that additional
bonus of development on their property in a rural setting.
I think it be argued to commissioner.
Commissioner Lockhart point
what he is agriculture or what is world major mean you can
have a half-acre lot the trouble I mean, there's plenty
communities across this country in the world are more director
loss. If you're going to talk about what it means you're
going to have forces are ponies or goats or whatever then
you're back to a 5 acre money on track.
It to me.
I would be OK evaporating the bonus.
Completely
however I would like to have guidance from our legal counsel
based on what the voters approved back in 2004.
And what those property owners agreed to an understanding
of what they're
benefits we're going to be
if they chose to stay within the rule boundary
chose to get out of the world.
And I think that's going to be something we've got to consider
and maybe we don't
I mean with the voters approved is this five-member board can
make a decision to change that in any given time.
So the question is this board want to change with the voters
approved. Initially
and knew and understood what would occur.
And what those property owners
may or may not receive based what we decide now what they're
understanding what they received back in November has
been in place.
>> So maybe what we need to do. So that also is make sure that
we understand the timeline of when the questioning provision
went into place and when that was before that it was included
in all that we need a little history lesson I think by the
end of the day.
>> For the record. I'm OK if it's one for 5 you can build
one unit on 5 acres that's one part and you get bill one year
on 10 acres to take the clustering out. I would take a
close to putting out.
Now what that means is
you're going to places that eventually he looked like
Dallas, Fort Worth where you have these big square homes in
cow pastures one every 10 acres with no trees and you're
looking to go on. We did all that.
>> Yes commissioner so yeah, so I just play devil's advocate
for a minute similar I have similar concerns with that as
you did with the quarter acre lot and how do they put the
pool, how they put the whatever so I think if you keep it the
way it is we then you clearly need to
make sure that we delineate what the rules are with regard
to other buildings because I could tell you I could fill up
a one acre 5 acre 10 acre lot good news big of a lot as I
have I have endless money I can actually cement over the entire
d*** thing right. So I also don't think that's in keeping
with the rural character. So I don't think it's just the
clustering that takes away from the rural character. It's not
necessarily the size of the lot that takes away from the rural
character. It's the the way it's build and was allowed to
happen after the fact as well
and and your your comment about areas of the country where it's
the big House and Democrats in Florida as well. But then over
time if you go back you see then there's the second 12 wing
and then there's the big barn. That's not really a barn and
then the first to right and to to that point I think it really
boils down to is.
>> When the voters of this County approved the referendum.
It was never contemplated nor were there any design standards
contemplated what was going to be quote rule.
It was called the rural boundary because it was world
that came in before.
And now we see citizens will fly design standards. The rule,
here's the reality.
You can go to places Seminole Woods.
Okay, it's paved roads.
Hey, some people have forces got it you can go over chuluota
Mills create a Mills the state gated communities with
4 million dollar mansions.
5 car garage is big swimming pools. Just like it is and
Heathrow you could if you didn't know you were chuluota
you can say you ready for it's no different but it's in that
world down.
So I think you know we have to understand
the rule boundary is a boundary that controls density and
that's what the voters were told it's going to control the
density and promote the preservation of open green
spaces and so on so forth. It was never told the voters
that
it's going to be ruled by design.
Why certain extent that I'm actually happens
because the market drives people wanting 5 acre tract
bring their children are forcing open spaces.
So you get a lot of that but there are plenty of people have
5 acres out there that have nothing but a mobile homes
sitting on it with trash all around. I mean that's the
reality. There are other people that have 5 acres out there
with a mansion on it nothing else.
It looks like a City Hall.
So I don't think we want to confuse
design
with the referendum of the boundary.
Well taken Mister Hammack.
>> And just to clarify there. The at the rural areas there
are policies and within the conference of plan that protect
the rural character. So that was very much a part of those
policies when they were adopted in the conference of plan and
we do have world design standards for lead to non
residential development that was vested within the rural
area.
It is our question for this it because we do have to move
forward with get approving the air based amendments are
bringing the airbase amendment forward to you is do we want to
try to remedy that inconsistency between a half
acre and then one acre clustering provision
know or do we want to just leave it as is.
>> What a sick, I'm fine making system but I think the
attorneys give us cause. Mister Constantine
I mean I think we can make it consistent right now, and and
as I said go to the minimum one acre and and no density bonus
and we can make that very consistent
and I think that's the thing that was we talked a lot about
you know design and and and and and people's attitudes and what
they thought the fact of the matter is I think that the one
minimum acre and no density bonuses. It the the best
idea going forward in the rural area which is consistent with
our land development code part of a comprehensive plan policy
I believe is what you said correct.
>> Just straight clustering with a density and those
provisions within the rural area, you can it allows a
minimum a lot size of the head I think or if you utilize the
density bonus provisions within our 10 and a 10 that requires a
minimum of one acre lot size.
>> So we have a chance to make it consistent and I think that
the the minimum one acre lot size but no density bonuses I
believe the way to go and what I believe that the citizens.
You know we talk about all the things I think that's where the
citizens felt that that's where we're going to go if we ever
did clustering we'd still be a a one acre lot and commissioner
you're right we could fill up every acre you possibly could
with the with the a concrete. Fortunately, you can't always
do that with the setbacks but the fact of the matter is is
that that for a rural flavor that would be more consistent,
I believe.
>> So I just want to make sure we're not taking something away
that exist already.
>> We are we are absolutely are if we go with
what commissioner Constantine as proposed I don't I'm not
saying I disagree with that,
I'm just saying is
you're taking away and title one that already exists.
>> Don't don't know that I'm cool with that I agree titled
an existing title in existing mean you want to talk about
financial ramifications.
So maybe.
>> Question to staff so
maybe this helps us get to what you need.
What is the harm is a causing heartburn for staff
when the inconsistency is it too hard to manage is it.
What is pressure from the public is it.
Pressure from says it just these are making all
consistent. Why are we trying to.
>> We asked will change.
>> What exists mean is there is there been a problem.
Thus far.
>> It means that a widespread problem that it is an issue
that did come up. And has a one particular piece of property.
There was confusion about you know we love to have half acre
meadow run size or is that one acre lot size because the comp
plan specifically there's a policy that says clustering
with in the world Larry allows a minimum of a half acre fire.
When you go back and look at a 10 and our 10 for that density
bonus ice as an acre so there's inconsistency there.
>> And that we would like, but that's easy to manage right if
you if it's if it's.
>> We are 10 or 8 and there are 5 or or a 5.
It's just applying the calculation right because I'm a
good example of this is taped
the sore subject of River cross.
The Clayton property.
That was always understood.
When we went door to door had conversations about the world
boundary coming in and the place
and Charlie claim. I understood that he was entitled cluster on
that property under the guidelines if you want it.
Of course, Charlie is no longer here. We know what's happened
historically we know work. All right now is that what some
buddies, crazy idea they want to do over there.
If we change we are taking way entitlements on some parcels I
can sit here and tell you how many parcels that is only
property owners that effects.
At the end of the day. And the whole premise of originally put
in
was to encourage open space.
It gave the ability for Monday lard from to put their
development
deep into the wards, if you will or way back in the past
year when nobody even saw.
>> So I thought what if instead of what if we change that
statement in the comprehensive plan to say half acre lots are
allowed in the room to if you question the real area except
for and
8 a 10.
Yes, we think they're a fight that way.
I mean that what if the issue is that somebody read it and
they got confused because it said something different
somewhere else.
So maybe we just make it clear with the intent is and that one
piece
haha.
>> It's just a misunderstanding, you're
correct. Absolutely thank you for asking the question because
that's great commissioner Constantine but at the same
time and I did I see where you're going for but clustering
was too
to get more open space and to provide. You know the density
bonus was to provide people to take advantage of it, but we
really haven't people knocking the doors down to do that.
It's you know they're most of them are going into the
standard, you know the development everything I and
that's why I was sitting here trying to 5 which would be the
best way to try to get those that do want clustering
to take advantage of it I
I I don't know if the half acre will do it or not but if
there's you know if it's all about just a clarification
issue. I guess you know at this point I'm I'm willing to go
along with that but I truly believe that you know if you're
going to build in the rural area people are going to look
at it and say you know I want more I want more space as far
as my property goes and that's why I was thinking the one acre
and to that point here's what I would tell you you talk to any
savvy realtor.
>> In the Orlando MSA.
If they have a client that's looking for acreage
they're coming to Seminole County
for 5 or 10 acres you just can't fund it.
Historically good dry land in Osceola or we have a great deal
of
folks who actually have businesses or work.
In Orlando that live in Seminole because they want
their children have horses or have that extra land and all
that and what it's done is it has driven the price of land
through the roof in the rural area. And so I was a great
people for the most part they want to live that they want a
larger a larger loss, yes, and the developer. Even if they
could take advantage
of the of the bonus make better serve staying with the direct
straight zoning with one for 5 on for 10 and get that
additional money out of it and saw a decision but I like
commissioner Lockhart I would agree clarify the language and
move on.
>> The commissioner, I like to clarify the language and move
on I would also add that if you are if you're talking about the
difference between one acre and a half an acre. I think it's
we haven't talked about fertilizer lawns and all of
that and I do want to bring that topic up but I'm going to
I would rather have fertilizer on half an acre because these
are going to be manicured yards yet in acre an acre you're not
leaving it.
Natural for the most part.
Maybe maybe not but not not in these neighborhoods S and right
away I think we compete with Lake and Volusia County for
people with a courage.
>> Yeah, they don't have all the good things we have
okay so it sounds like commissioner Constantine are
you comfortable with the language clarification because
it sounds like there's there it doesn't seem to be a rush to go
in the other direction anyway so I think we're spending a lot
of time trying to find the perfect solution. And I'm not
I'm here to talk struck the good waiting for the perfect.
And then just follow.
Just real quick.
>> You're right everybody is correct at the end of the day
this doesn't affect more than maybe
7 properties even exist.
So there's that.
>> Understood that was a question I had in my mind as
we're talking about this is how many of these parcels exist out
there that we're going to mash nations over I would like to go
ahead though, and and continue to go on our little history
lesson because this will come back up again at some point in
be good to have that research so we can kind of figure out
what we've what can of worms we may be opening a flea
address the different.
>> So we've skipped the entire first part of this and got
stuck in the rural area. I would
I would just say that I like the changes that you've made I
think you listen to what we were saying I think the lack of
the canyon effect was what we asked for the additional
setback to make sure that we're farther off the road in some of
our neighboring communities that
but certain commissioners when they drove through those
neighborhoods you've addressed that
and I don't know that there were questions there that you
needed from us, but I don't want to skip the rest of it.
>> And get stuck there if you are not going to walk away with
what you need in order to get this accomplished, we do need
direction unless someone has a concern with what we've frozen
well I do have one question there. Sure nobody wants to get
to launch.
It all just a little bit.
And that I'm certain I heard the statement was typically.
The neighbors are going to have the same zoning as the property
next to it.
Unfortunately that's not the case in this County as we many
of us up here know that where residential developments that
are all commercial property because they didn't want to
develop commercial and there's commercial right next to and
that he wasn't sure what the fact that all the commercial
guy was developed. What is more like a family project.
It's it's important to me at least
in this whole PD process.
We've got to get away from
PD is the is the vehicle to circumvent the rules and
regulations.
I think it needs to be made very clear
with the P B's or 4.
And that give certainty to the citizens as well as the
development community of what what can be done.
The PD gets
a little twisted we try to square pegs into round holes
and then we get up here we all think we can
and the go she ate all these things and commissioner
Constantine's tell me was 3 times the amount of open space
the wants and that is you know I want no light shine a
neighbor's yard and
staff's already said well you're going to have design
standards why because we can demand that under the PD
all of these things need to be tied up that
APD should be where rare exceptional real rare, and only
because it's some kind of funky.
Others only category that otherwise doesn't fit and I
understand you need the flexibility, I appreciate the
flexibility.
3 or 4 or 5 years I spent on paeans even now the 5 years
have been here. PD is are always a problem.
The problem for the public. The problem often for the
developer lot of times the developer gets the benefit of
the doubt instead of the some of the citizens.
And then we have
all the Cajuns
were invoking design standards on this project from staff
level that the piece right next door does not even have the
same design standards
I'd like to tie that up with a pretty bow. So there's
certainty for both sides.
So developers not coming and going hey, you know I don't
really want to do straight zone. I want to have this this
and this
that way we don't get into these battles, it's clear
there's clarity and I understand there's going to be
exceptions to the rule were APD make sense.
So you know that my thought process on that first section
we really to be tied up that P because every time I hear
you know, there's occasionally we've got these PBS week ago
that usually causes problems.
>> Before we move to commissioner Constantine would
you like to address commissioner zembower comments
yes please again for the record of economic development
services director as part of the land development code
update there we've been working on that will be before you on
the 24th, we were directed by the board to go back and
strengthen the PD section of the code. So there is language
that we're proposing amendments to to the PD section
which requires even more stringent.
I guess regulations related to when you would qualify for APD
that there are provisions within the PD section of the
code since it is a negotiated zoning district that you know
we came to the board and staff can request additional
requirements that are part of land development code like
architectural design because the idea is that if it is a
unique development that doesn't fit within our state zoning
categories you do have the ability to apply for APD the
staff and the board have the ability to put conditions upon
the PD to create compatibility.
>> I'm just and therein lies the problem.
Because
staff is going to request certain things.
When it comes to this board for a look at what staff wants to
go.
We want to know 20 foot set back or we want you know we we
don't like that were sought your proposal need like a stone
instead by that time. The developer has spent maybe
hundreds of thousands of dollars to get through staff.
Engineering and only come here and find out we're going to
demand more we're negotiating more expected negotiate more.
We just think that tied up
much tighter and so when it was brought up earlier today the PD
would be one option.
>> Yeah, yeah, I got it but maybe not and unfortunately,
that is the inherent nature of APD is that back and forth
negotiation, hopefully, a developer does their due
diligence and you know does their homework in speaking with
the public that's their community meetings and speaks
with the commissioners they can do a lot of that preparation in
advance of the public hearing because on the other hand
without the PD we might just have a lot of you know know
that that uses incompatible and we wouldn't be able to
recommend approval.
>> Understood the problem is has you keep going keep going
go ahead well I want to get my point okay, and then you can
have to share will get to the floor. I'm sure
my point being is
exactly what you're saying is.
This body
is the war on
who should be setting.
The parameters of that.
Instead what happens is we set parameters in the code.
It gets so staff level staff, negotiates whatever they think
is the appropriate thing that maybe the board would like or
maybe some of the board would like, and then it comes to us
and we start negotiating with the contractor with the
developer again
that doesn't make sense that we tied up. If we give you policy
of what we expect to see an APD its design standards great if
it's not then we should not be invoking that
at that level for all
and he's the clarity to develop and understand what that should
be.
>> Yeah there for process opportunities for sure where it
will definitely has that we've had that discussion and staffs
have that discussion as well commissioner Constantine
before you
everything that everybody has said you know, I mean it comes
to this point.
And this is what all I was kind of think it's on us.
Okay, it's like.
And this is not a reflection of what this commission to
reflection of commissions even before us.
It's big it's like Pavel stock.
The developer sees that they can get more out of PD
with less requirements because we have been negotiating on our
side.
And that's because of the message that we sent to the
staff.
And so the fact of the matter is it's coming up on us
to that end into a lot of the things that that. Commissioner
zembower said I was you know going to say in another way,
but it's true it it we've got to
we've got to send the message that PD is the exception,
not the rule.
And that when you did APD it's not about the developer getting
more
density
without any more requirements.
And so what you know that I think the staff is starting to
get that because we have constantly impede ease, try to
say where are we what are we doing what are we getting as
opposed to just what they're getting. But until
developers understand that there's going to be
consequences not just positive for them, but that both sides
are going to get something out of the PD they're going to
continue to ask for thinking that they're going to get more
than if they'd industry 70.
Just all about trying to short 35 my friend understand.
I think what we're trying to see what I'm trying to say is
we tighten up basically guidelines say if you're going
to APD you're going to do next.
If you're going to APD even do X y and Z.
Instead we've left it up and to partake in the staff
because we do have written the guidelines that comes doesn't
we negotiate something completely different each
property. So I think the county manager is going to bring that
very conversation back to us. Those are for conversation
because I think that it's it's definitely a worthy discussion.
>> And before a concert I want to cut you off, but it's.
>> I'd like to put a period at the end of sentence to send
County manager knows where stand on this I am extremely
uncomfortable. When we move out of the legislative role in into
a staff role and we do that from the stylus and that's I
think what you're trying to say more often than we should.
And so yeah that that means that we should be putting code
in place that keeps us out of that position and I think
that's the 32nd some some summary of what Colin last
year-and dollars tempting to say I don't want to be a plan
or I'm not going to be a good planner
and and I don't like it when we try to be a planner I think we
come out with a worse outcome for staff is exceptionally
talented and they should be doing it. We should be building
the code to allow them to do it right.
Before we move on.
>> Is there anything else that you need from us in terms of
direction.
We do need direction hand septic. So we gave additional
data in order to get feedback on whether the septic the
enhanced uptick requirement should be implemented.
County wide for says just in the areas with the mandated by
the state as well as whether they should be required in a
cluster developments commissioner.
>> And weighed in on this. I think we should follow the
state's rules.
Commissioner zembower great
Mister Constantine
all I'm saying is it's not you know that's the science we
always like to follow the science the science today is
not going back to standard septic tanks cause standard
septic tanks tonight achieve the same results and at some
point we're going to be paying for it so to sit there and just
do it in one section of the county as opposed to the entire
County. I think we're just asking ourselves for trouble in
the future. I would say we go into it with the now the most
reliable science we have which is the advanced septic tank.
That will that will provide less pollution to our waterways
that if we go the other way
and I think that when the state
>> and advances and expands there requirement we can do it
along with them, but I think to provide consistency will do it
from my perspective, what the state has an active
commissioner zembower just follow up on that.
>> If if if we want to have a real honest conversation about
being good to the environment.
We should be looking at the package plan provisions that
are in place to prevent development in the rural area.
If if the citizens
and it's really want to be good stewards of the environment.
We should allow
whether it's in the room where you're not trying our best to
eliminate septic tanks.
And push the developer towards a package plan that is only
specific to that development cannot be expanded cannot go
off site cannot be utilized by the county or any other
property owner.
It's just an excuse.
>> Otherwise, I'm happy with that I agree with us so do you
have you have everything you need from
to move forward from the things you presented to us today we do
thank you all right, thank you so much, she's literally right
in front of County manager do you need anything before we
break for lunch. Miss County attorney and even all right,
we will strike or have a speaker.
The public's become okay.
That's fine. Why did you go ahead and come down MS. Harman
because no one can hear what you're saying and they'll just
say that I told you that you know beat feed them. There's my
others might also has we know you wouldn't see harm some 5,
2, pioneer way Geneva Florida.
I'm going to knock on your doors.
>> And just discussed.
Jeanne, this concerns.
>> I am going to leave give the county attorney. This document
a cop to tell her where she can get this this document the
2006. We're all character.
Planned discusses everything you were talking about the
talks about the meetings that were held back then it talks
about the world design that was intended and I think if you go
back here and then you go this is probably the best document
you're gonna find on record. Here in the county because they
can't find minute meetings or anything other than that was a
meeting that was held at 7. We're not going to prove that
that we're going to dot parts of it and if you read this and
you read the code you will see parts of this are given the
code so this will probably be the best tool to at least get
educated kind of get a feel of what happened
and so on.
>> The effort at the break to show you this OK, thank you
very much. Thank you miss Harman appreciate it so.
Benefits of.
>> County attorney kind of magic you can get copies that
my office that was discussed it was a study that this the
county paid for and was never adopted by the BCC in 2006
instead there were portions extracted from that and put
into the code as part of that study, but they never adopted
the entire study, the talks about design standards and all
kinds of other things and I've got copies of that I'm happy to
share.
>> Nothing else. Thank you so much for catching that nothing
else to come before the board we will be adjourned until are
in recess, excuse me until one 30.