>> Going to run this quick
a lot of questions.
Good evening. This is the October 4th Seminole County
planning and zoning Commission meeting my name is Christa la
junta chairman fortune 8th meeting please stand for the
pledge of allegiance.
>> Just stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty
and justice for all.
>> This Ford is a 7 member board appointed by the Board of
County commissioners a qorum has been established to hold
tonight's meeting,
public hearing items acted upon and by this point I referred
back to the Board of County commissioners for further
consideration.
Board members present tonight are crystalline
vice chairman Dan Locust.
Commissioner Tim Smith
commissioner student's mother and commissioner Mike Lawrence
staff present tonight, our Rebecca Haneke development
services director
Desmond Morrell senior assistant County attorney.
Vladimir salmon off ski professional engineer
development review any filling way senior planner Maya Dennis
senior planner Tyler Reed senior planner Eliza Harris
Giuliano consultants from Kim Lee horn and Associates and
Tammy brush but our P and C 4 o'clock
to make tonight's meeting will go as follows staff will
introduce each item. The applicant will present the item
ions members wishing to speak will then be heard.
Please complete a comment card and give it to the clerk,
if you wish to speak comment cards are located out in the
lobby.
Speaker should restrict their comments to information
directly related to the item being heard
audience speakers will all have 3 minutes to speak or 6 minutes
if you're representing an official groups such as an
H.O.A.
when called speaker should approach the microphone provide
their name and address for the record and the port mass
questions of the speaker.
After all speakers haven't heard public comment will be
closed the applicant will be given a chance for rebuttal.
Any items that are shown such as videos presentations
pictures or maps must be left with the clerk for the public
record
items shown from electronic devices should be emailed to
arrange the mail to Tammy
the motion will be made and then second in board discussion
may occur and will conclude with a vote. I will request a
roll call vote for any split votes tonight.
We'll begin with our first item on the agenda, the proof of
publications, I have a motion and you have a motion.
Second motion second all in favor, aye opposed. Proof of
publications approved next we'll move on to the minutes
from the last meeting
2 and a motion.
Well Mike.
Second think all in favor aye opposed
seeing none the motion process.
Public hearing item tonight. Item number one tri-state
towing PD rezoning it will be any filet presenting.
>> Good evening and he so a senior planner development
services.
The applicant is requesting a rezone from a one agriculture
to PD plan development to develop the subject property as
an office and warehouse with an accessory use of a tow yard.
The master development plan includes 800 square feet of
office and 3500 square feet of warehouse for maximum building
size of 4300 square feet and a maximum building height of 35
feet
approximately 10,000 square feet of the subjects site will
utilize as out for a vehicle storage for towing company
which will be enclosed by a 6 foot high. Pick sense.
The towing company currently operates with 6 tow trucks and
provides roadside assistance to the general public as well as
emergency response service for public safety fire and police.
The propose hours of operation are Monday through Friday from
08:00AM to 06:00PM and a 24 hour drop off for emergency
response.
All the properties on the West Side of West state Road 4.26
line south of West Chapman Road and north of the Loma Woods
Boulevard have an industrial future land use
the purpose and intent of the existing future land use
designation is to identify locations for a variety of
health or excuse me heavy commercial and industrial uses
oriented towards wholesale distribution storage and
manufacturing and other industrial uses
the applicant will be providing 20% open space and equip a
first along the South and the East portions of the site and
the applicant is only proposing an FAA are of 0.1 0 which is
less intense than the maximum allowable 0.6 5 affair
permitted under the future land use
access to get to the site has an existing cross access.
Easement that was established back in 2003 and the applicant
will provide a cross access easement to the property
adjacent to the south.
Stephens that request to be consistent with the
comprehensive plan in Seminole County land development code
and compatible with the surrounding trend of
development in the area.
Staff recommends the Board of County commissioners adopt the
proposed ordinance enacting a rezone and approve the
Associated master development plan and development order from
a one agriculture to PD plan development on approximately
0.9 2 acres located on the West Side of West state Road 4.26 a
prop approximately 800 feet north of connection point and
that concludes my presentation.
>> Thank you Mannie thank you any questions of staff just
have one this
is this office warehouse that's just North north of there.
The adjoining property.
So it's just all office warehouse.
>> Yes, so properties to the north are office and warehouse.
OK, thank you. Yes, I had
I'm sorry one clarification on the access.
Clarification what I I don't know if it was clear on how
they're going to access the property.
They're going to access to the north through the north of
parcel with existing.
So this property upon the master development plan will be
accessing to the north through an existing developed property
understood okay, thank you welcome anything else any other
questions staff.
Okay, if the applicant present yes.
What did he mean that Ken Fisher on behalf of the owner,
I don't have a presentation but I'm here for questions and for
a photo with need.
Thank you very much a questions of the applicant.
>> We have one member of the audience here. Tonight in
support of this item. She does not wish to speak, but it's
wants to place your sport
and I have to comment cards.
An opposition so let's have seen the deal.
Biles that correct.
>> Sandy deeley 3 oh one Caroline I Oviedo.
I'm here today as both a concerned citizen and a partner
at Oviedo commerce center that's the property to the
north.
All refer to it is of cc
I have been an Ohio resident for over 35 years.
I became a partner at OCC following my husband's passing
and 2021.
In the beginning of the project, my late husband George
Bailey, his major role he was the developer develop the land.
After that after the project was completed he became the
broker.
The integrity of our center is the most important to us.
My partners and I can
when my late husband to calls regarding a vacant space the
first question was what kind of business but you want to put in
here.
He needs to make sure that if it was right for the health of
the center and of course the business tight needed to be
right which was allowed to be there.
We were denied heavy industrial uses from the beginning of that
property
Oviedo converse enter it's a thriving fully leased facility.
Our tenant mix is of
its optimal and most importantly our tenants are
satisfied and are able to run successful businesses.
My fear.
The impact of both our tenants and the driveway access.
It's going to be devastating
to the center if this application is approved.
My fear
tenants not renewing their lease is moving out and we will
just have an empty building.
I strongly opposes application on behalf of myself,
the businesses and their employees.
Thank you.
Thank you very much.
Next we have Glenn Leffler.
>> On behalf of the Oviedo commerce enter.
>> Thank you my name is Glenn Leffler I love the 24 oh one
South Atlantic Avenue new Smyrna Beach Florida.
My relationship to be a converse enter. I was George
release partner George came to me back in 2000 plus or -2,001
city at a project ready to go could help get it financed and
be a partner and off we went. Part of our zoning requirement
was we had entered the PD there was some talk about the dot and
maybe the county not wanting somebody curb cuts on for 26,
maybe have a lot to do with the fight pass that was coming
through about the same time.
So we had a maybe cross access with a veto stores to our media
North we only shared driveway might be from here to the wall
and you need to go to the storage place you go to art we
do go through there's they don't go tries and shared to me
go.
The cross access easement was part of what we had to give to
get our PD approved. We gave it we didn't know we were going to
have a heavy industrial use nexus were light industrial few
went to that we do converse enter and I understand you
haven't been able to be there yet.
So but it's a very nice glass front office take buildings on
the front line industry on the back it's almost not industrial
to
makes about 9.10. It's probably 6070 employees totals 100%
leased and that's our concern. I don't know how we prevent
down the future. All the sudden the this project is there in
our tenants are renewing leases we're 100% been a 100% for
years we don't lose tenants
that's our primary concern not that there's development next
door to us, it's what goes next door,
I've been to a Tri County towing facility on the line and
I believe
vehicles everywhere chain-link fence of the other facility
offense Tri County your tri-state this is tri-state an
officer Tri County are what I believe there.
What we were not allowed to do. Heavy truck repair truck or bus
repair or storage.
As Andy said George it was very diligent about what what could
go in there what could go in there and a key part money
and he goes staff and develop more presented it's a it's an
auto record tow yard. That's our belief we could be wrong.
We don't believe it's compatible with our use were
not heavy industry leaders.
Office building the residential, I don't know of
any other than like. So says maybe to the far West. You know
the insult to injury is that every day they're going to
drive through our project. Heavy tow trucks towing another
truck, I don't know what I'm not sure anybody does. But
every day they got to come through passing for our main
tenant pastor Massey services
and I look at my tennis start saying hey, I'm not renewing
and the reason is whatever situate this move in it's not
to say there.
We could lose millions of dollars and that's an
exaggeration used and it's put a cap arena.
We just we don't think consideration as we get into
the Oviedo commerce enter its employees and its tenets.
And vice myself as a partner in the business is there any
employees and for safety of everyone
and that bike past we strongly oppose this application.
And we think it's incredibly inadequate development order.
We think it needs go back to drawing board and minimum but I
I don't question is this where city electric to they used to
be there they used to be in the back and they were in the
correct it and we sort of way because they were put in
storage outside their plates other 2 guys you can't do that
and you know, and that was part and they were grown and the
city got to go somewhere else. Yeah, okay, I just want to say
for me the chance place and they're saying Plaza yeah
that's a place I think you.
>> Through that and other than the drive thru traffic which I
can understand the applicant only proposing a 5 foot buffer
in between your property and this one what was able to be
seen by a or tendons of
what do you have there along like you have the offices where
people could see where your tenants with your customers,
you know like a tow yard, yes for what is there about near
South where. So what the applicant is proposing is a 6
foot opaque fence around the property. That's what's in that
included on top of the 5 foot but for now the wear but for
code is structured is that. We base it off of the future
land use. So the tenant to the north which is the of you know
commerce enter is industrial future land use so
what they're providing I 5 foot with buffer that's going to be
sawed but we're proposing a 15 foot along the East and a 5
foot buffer along the South as well as an opaque fence.
And there will be a gate security gate in front to get
back to the storage yard.
>> But I can ask you one question Sir, and the back of
that South building is this their windows is there anything
that visually match up to that property.
>> No not right here, this looks like probably are back
building and there that's it's battled back here just
greste stores and some grass yeah.
There are some office windows here for Massey and they're all
office here we often hear so every day they're going to come
in right here.
When pastor contents tow trucks, whatever, you know what
it will turn into but yeah, how do you tell me that I've gone
from a 100% leased and then I get tenants in the near future
saying we can't renew we can't stay here.
This is totally different and
I could easily lose a couple million dollars in the value
that project.
It's all based on income cap, rich, probably know that
it's
it's a small nightmare to us right now
looking at what we are in the surrounding area like I said
when song I believe is a residential development.
Immediately, our front door and to our South.
One 8th of a mile me I believe in office buildings across the
way more office I don't think you see any industrial for the
most part of the North's we talked about this a little bit
ago.
But I know what you're talking about to the West and passed
almost toward.
The 4.17 is this one you were talking about
because for 7 teams back here for 26
for 7 teams back here.
I think there is a little more dust. We also have a wetlands
back there got up on back there were others live.
I just I think this whole row news here against.
What we have.
Thank you thank you.
>> Good yes. Thank you.
We're going to offer that robot all but I have a question of
staff.
Oh, I'm sorry.
One more on this item actually
Kimberley Wilson.
Kimberly first, and and so I can I ask you a quick question
here.
>> It shows the access again is this going to go in front of
the Massey.
So I mean it 5 times over there all point to it it does so
coming right from here. So they're coming through the via
commerce enter
and down in here.
>> So more in front of then all through the complex that is in
front of so this is a great years to find this page right
here this building and this drive, Lee's just north of we
can T we come in there
come out here and there to back and keep going that's carried a
tense mostly office up front.
>> I can I have some questions too about what land right here.
We first came to me want to buy something then he disappeared
about it.
Yeah, one question. That's right away that goes through
this complex
is that a county maintained right away or is it a private
right away. What are we making right across access. Easement
work it will require you to help you fight.
>> I was per cent said we never envisioned this.
>> So the access offa for 26 as you can see is the circled
area.
You can drive you can turn off a 4 20's for 26 and then you
want to head south where the red line is going
and then where the star as that's the property can you
guys see that OK.
>> Yes, so you're not actually going into the conflict,
correct. We are.
>> And you're going to you're going to you're going through
the driveway access, you're not going in between there and
you're not currently where they're going to drive.
>> Starting around but that you drive a tow truck to our cars
cars, one side you'll still be able to live a K.
>> Actually any what is the question about ownership of
that the little triangle right in front because it pretty
clearly looks like on your mouth, but it would be the Obi
the Commerce center. It is
all right Greg, thank you, let's conclude public comments
and this will send you want to come up and
and this week.
I want to get out of order here.
>> Yes good evening board members. My name is Kimberly
Wilson, thank you for the opportunity to come before this
board and here my comments and concerns if you would indulge
me just for one moment and I have a few questions for you
all of you and show the affirmative with a raised
answer for a yes answer.
How many of you live here right here in Seminole County.
All of us to wonderful how many of you live in Oviedo.
I I guess that's just me and how many of you live 500 feet
away from this proposed amendment and rezoning
that would be made the one right across the way. So as a
20 plus-year a resident of Oviedo, I moved here for the
same reasons that so many newcomers are coming to our
beautiful state we have great weather we have great schools,
we have great active lifestyle and wonderful outdoor
activities with numerous parks and walking trails
please note I am not against development for progress but
progress without proper planning. Equals disaster for
those who have to live among it or across from it.
I respectfully request that the zoning remain as it is and not
be rezoned for this project.
According to my letter, the current zoning on this includes
single-family neighborhood, public private elementary
school and nurseries and greenhouses
with the proposed development it would allow for a warehouse
office and a towing yard, this would directly affect safety is
currently on the bike trail.
It would increase traffic and this is already busy road and
area it would affect property values.
Showing removal of trees and having a towing yard right
across the street from me
it would affect the enjoyment of the residential area.
Right across the street.
A towing business operates on a 24 hour clock.
Again this leads to disruption noise and additional traffic.
This is already an extremely busy Street many times I can't
even get out of my own neighborhood, many drivers use
our entrance as a U shape, turning Lane. There have been
several fatal accidents right in front of my neighborhood.
My neighborhood was completely flooded last year allowing
additional
commercial properties would lead to additional flooding.
We had flooding with Ian and I couldn't even get out of my own
property.
I realize that I'm only one person and up against many
monetary income that the county would receive with this I ask
you to seriously consider my comments and at the very least
let do not allow an additional entrance onto the 4.26 for this
project and some type of sound barrier should be built around
it. Thank you for your time.
MS. Wilson can you show us appointee your property on the
map please.
Yes.
OK and France's right here so the site is pretty much
directly across
and transfer where other properties are just.
There's one. Use this as a turning Lane.
So for me to even try and get out I could only taken right
out of my neighborhood.
You're talking about I make a right there are always making
news can you put another and France over here that's
directly across.
>> All right. Thank God. The applicant would you like to
rebut.
>> Thank you again for the record Ken Fisher.
So the property to our North but you are correct, we don't
actually have access on 2 for 26.
Crack so we don't actually have any right away frontage from my
understanding the property to the north part of their
development order was they had to get access to not only our
property, but the property to remediate South.
Somehow whenever the East bank got done the property to our
immediate South really doesn't have access. They have like a 3
or 4 foot access which is not enough to get a car in their
support of what we're doing is we're going to be giving them
access.
Through our is all along our frontage said that they can
have access because they've been kind of landlocked
so we are we are doing tow trucks but
I had to learn a lot myself about tow trucks that this is
only emergency tow truck, so apparently one of the examples
so all of the surrounding cities there the service
provider for emergency vehicles for accident scenes
and one of the I believe it's city of Oviedo, they have to be
within a five-mile radius of the intersection of 4.26 and
red bug Lake.
So they are the towing facility that's going to go out and pick
up cars that are parked illegal. These this is a tell
you facility for emergency vehicle. So part of their
warehouse part of the building that we're doing is for the
forensics for the said emergency. The crash scene so
I don't want this to be like him and we went over this with
staff and some detail, this isn't a normal where you see
that piles and piles of cars and you come pick up your car
because it got
toad parked illegally this is for emergency response. I
believe they're the service provider for the county as well
as several of the city's around so this isn't that type of that
facility, it's just for emergency crash scenes.
And so the access
and that property to the Northwest required as part of
their development was to get these parcels access and so
that is our only form of access.
Is is through this driveway. There is an agreement already
in place there's an access agreement for this and got us
the only way for this property to have vehicular access is
utilizing the existing access. That was required by the
county. Whenever they came in for development, so.
>> I've got to come in.
All right so you can put any kind of a fence up around this
property. Yeah, we've got a 6 but Olbermann or fence going
up. Okay, second question. These going to be a large-scale
tow trucks are getting small flight and your number.
>> These are these are the smaller ones.
And it's because the response time. I'm not sure where all he
has the facilities, but you've got to be within a five-mile
radius, I guess red but for 26 is a good example because
that's where apparently a lot of accidents are.
So you know when we first met with the county the county was
no no no tow yards until we've all found out more about this
is for emergency response and getting to the emergency scenes
and the accident scenes to remove the vehicles.
>> And the 3rd question. This site, you know if you're
going to be completely 8.
>> No up in the front will have the pavement for the regular.
You know employees that stay there but in the back that I
don't and the and the back were the vehicles will be if they're
not in inside the building for forensics. They're not they're
very long. They're they're not long-term storage that's
nothing like that these are just the pickups and and then
you get another tow truck that then takes them to a shop.
Never how long that takes a day a few hours a few days, but
this isn't a long-term storage solution.
>> Type of a tow yard facility. I do have one concern if these
vehicles coming from an action scene and they're parked on the
dirt surface out there and is fluid leaks coming out of such
as oil transmission fluid. All the things you would like
it would be leaking onto into the aquifer
there's no provisions for any kind of a catch. Catch this
tomorrow grease trap or anything like that on the
property.
>> We don't have a grease trap that we can definitely look at
that when we move to the next stop and doing some kind of an
additional treatment with the pond system and having it slow
and weather. But in an oil waters surf while water sand
separate are a real concern with that
we can definitely we've done this before for mechanic shops.
Any other questions of the applicant.
It and is it okay for a interject one thing the yes and
I think we have some questions of staff to make sure all right
thank you very much if there are certain concerns that the
board has an edge the development we can add
additional conditions into the development order.
>> I would like to see him have to actually pay this whole site
and do some kind of catchment system for the vehicles being
towed in with fluid leaks. I think it would be a
responsible thing to do with the neighbors and the people
across the street, I just I think just rain and into the
dirt is not what I would call responsible.
>> We to at that comment. We do have the hazard
mitigation section of the county. Where we can get the
contact information to work for had to have our applicant work
with them to see what catchment for the fluids on these big
vehicles and what we can do to prevent it as well. Yeah that.
>> Yeah is there any way we can table lists until we get those
answers.
>> That's a decision of the board. I mean you whether you
want to continue the item.
>> I have a I have a problem with the access. It.
I understand that maybe in the past the county was concerned
about having too many accesses are too many too many at the
curb and lands and on for 26 that if the if the the veto,
commerce enter owns.
The portion that's in front of this property in between this
and for 26, but could there be a different access work out
between these 2 neighbors or the county wouldn't allow that.
Until then.
They'll have to cut through the trail that's for certain.
>> Now the second thing is they will have to dedicate a new
cross access. Easement because it will still go to this
property that is actually developed
but it could go direct not in front of their tenants
correct and the like so that they will cut into triangles so
which are we can share in the air
when asked.
Change to document.
So these are the 2 over it.
Were the exact right.
She then calls.
We'll have to have these properties.
Still but that development you know, but perhaps they would
prefer something that just comes out that will require
again an application to dot in dot will have to sit still to
come to 46 states state.
>> So is this the same trail bike way that really strikes
you from OK, it's just the same one that goes right across the
board Home Depot interim yes, and when to the bridge and then
okay all right.
>> Were there any safety measures considered having
these tow trucks towing vehicles, a broken down
vehicles across the trail for pedestrians and
bikers children.
>> They and the trail it there's already us a stop sign,
I believe for the for the bikers. So there's like a
cross and already provide it and I that's typical standard
that
the parks and Recreation Department actually using its
part of our manual as well.
So this will require basically putting another one if another
it, let's say you have the access is a lot of people
required and not a
stop like that and I'm not across the state.
>> And
also at this maybe were one for an e
we actually care about anybody else for still come back with
that completely office traffic because of the bills any bills
ers
are there any plans to improve.
The access through that easement
and I don't know that you can get through the site yeah out
yes.
>> I believe the the action is already 2450. Why were they
going to do they just going to expand that going inside their
property and then provide additional close access.
Easement as a you have to consider earlier for that
property to the south.
>> Okay, I'm sorry any obviously the future land use
of of all these parcels is was the strongest real right.
Yes,
is this considered to be any type of heavier industrial,
then maybe what otherwise so could be proposed fare.
Well that the neighbor should have otherwise been able to
expect.
I mean there's many different permitted uses I would consider
this probably an M one a which is a later industrial.
A tow truck site.
I don't know off the top my head, some of the uses but this
is considered later industry so really the problem is with the
axe.
Go back to my comment. It's probably a little heavier than
later industrial due to the car storage outside.
Any other questions.
Do we have a team.
Do we have a motion for tabling until we get the.
>> I would to table it until they come up with some type of
site improvement that will contain
with everything going. So I just think it's irresponsible
to tow the vehicles and drop them in under a lot and have no
idea what the leak.
>> Okay and I I think also what commissioner Smith is is
talking about is not the G league, it's just from the tow
trucks, but also for chunk of my main concern and we have a
second Riverside sorry, we would rather into Nile versus a
continuance it was and I think that the board is is one are
some answers actually before we.
>> We I think we can get those answers if we've got an issue
with contaminant we don't mind doing I will stand separator
that is something that we'll look at a final engineering
that's not typically something that we would look at is owning
and that's something that the staff is going to be looking at
as well.
>> We have a motion on the table right now is everyone can
take that into consideration. It.
We motion will vote on this motion and if you agree with
the oil Sands separate or weaken, but it out
for discussion for sex with
make one comment for not public comments. Thank you.
>> What are we are considering a rezone here right now and we
clearly have
an easement that has existed.
So I'm I'm questioning what were the driver.
Continuing it.
If it's zoned properly and there is the access is
difficult we for towing operation.
>> If it was just the zone with no future you what knowing what
was what and when there would have different.
>> What if Massey comes in there and has a lot of vans and
trucks coming in and out the week, I mean I can create that
situation with a lot of different businesses.
Why there was no better because I think that they're the most
affected tissues him as a tenant example, but
we can we can put it to vote, I'm just I just want to
consider what what were really voting on here. Yeah. I don't
know if it's
you know hasn't gone through design.
That argument is what I want to support a dying it.
But continuing it
to get some some answers on some of the vinyl concerns I
don't think is is asking too much.
>> And in the board discussion before we take over.
So this vote is specifically to table until.
>> It's a disconnect us from eating this on from ation us
too.
And if we don't grow tabling it and we want to take another
vote has to up or down then
you can do to affect me, Adam Scherr are you is this a
continuance to the next planning and zoning meeting
that date certain next meeting.
Okay, so restate your motion please.
>> I'd like to make a motion to move the to have a continuance
to the November made.
>> And Tammy we had commissioner Lopez second so
I'm all in favor, aye aye.
Those opposed to a post. Okay that one failed do we have
another motion or any further board discussion on an up or
down.
>> I make a motion to recommend the Board of County
commissioners denied the ordinance enacting a rezone
from a one agriculture to PD plan development on
unfortunately, 0.9 2 acres located on the West Side of
West state Road 4.26 a proper proximate Lee 800 feet north of
connection point.
>> All in favor aye.
A post post.
He's second in the post.
I want to just clarify the votes. So this is about to
recommend denial to the Board of County commissioners.
Okay.
We do over on the way to a local yeah they do deny
commissioner spent most opposed to Lucas. Thank commissioner
Lawrence.
I was just
am I
then we will recommend denial to the Board of County
commissioners and I think I was the one that Brung me on that.
Hughes, we got there around about like a very good will
move on to the next agenda item.
Which is really acres administrative small scale
future land use and rebound. My finish prevent preventing.
>> Good evening for the record my has been a senior planner
for the planning and development division.
This is a request to consider a small scale future land use map
amendment from commercial to lure density residential and a
rezone from a one agriculture to R one a single-family
dwelling for 11 existing single-family residential lots
on approximately 3.7 acres
located north of West state Road 4.26 and southeast of
state Road 4.17.
The county is acting as the applicant for this project on
behalf of a group of citizens who signed a petition
requesting the future land use designation be changed from
commercial to future land use and I'm sorry to low density
residential to better reflect their established community of
single-family residential homes.
The properties in question include the entire really acre
subdivision and one other parcel directly adjacent
located in unincorporated Oviedo.
The Willie acre subdivision is an antiquated 5 per section
15.3 a one of the Seminole County land development code
having been platted in 1957. The homes are permitted to be
built on the subject lot since the last service did put the
plat
in addition, some of the homes were built prior to the 1960's
before zoning was established in Seminole County.
The Willie acre subdivision currently has 10 individual
lots, the 11th parcel included in this proposal is also a
legal nonconforming lot with the same zoning classification
and future land use designation
the subject parcels do not currently meet the one acre
size requirement for the a one zoning district and the
residential uses are not consistent with the commercial
future land use the proposed future land use map amendment
in rezone would bring the parcels more into compliance
Seminole County development services staff held a community
meeting on 5/16/2023 at Saint Helen's church to provide an
opportunity for property owners of the subject properties to
provide feedback.
There are 2 residents. The residents that attended the
community meeting
the subject property owners were sent certified return
receipt letters a notification was sent or standard mail to
property owners of parcels within 500 feet.
Staff received certified mail old receipts from the property
owners that have not submitted letters of support for the
proposal.
Staff also distributed informational door hangers to
announce the meeting as well.
Cole subject property owners have confirmed a notification
of the request. And there has been no opposition shown as of
this time.
After an evaluation of the consistency of the proposal
staff finds the proposed low density residential future land
use designation and I won a zoning classification to be
consistent. But the comprehensive plan and the land
development code of Seminole County.
This concludes my presentation staff recommends the Board of
County commissioners adopt the proposed ordinance enacting a
small scale future land use map amendment from commercials to
low density residential and adopt the ordinance enacting a
rezone from a one agriculture to R one a single-family
dwelling for 11 single-family residential lots on
approximately 3.7 acres, located in North West state
Road 4.26 and southeast of state Road 4.17.
>> In this case, the county is the applicant so do we have any
questions of the applicants or the little unique. Yeah,
this is it is I of course.
Okay, motion
war for discussion.
>> We're ready for a motion. Yes, I make a motion to
recommend the Board of County commissioners adopt the
proposed ordinance enacting a small scale for inter land use
map amendment from commercial to low density residential an
adopted ordinance enacting a rezone from a one agriculture.
2.
We are one a single-family dwelling for 11 single-family
residential lots on approximately 3.7 acres located
north of West state Road 4.26 and South east of state Road
4.17.
>> I'll second that motion okay, we have a motion in the
second all in favor.
Well I see none the motion carries.
This time will close on our public hearing items and move
on to work session item number 3 is the evaluation and
appraisal report faced comprehensive plan amendment
Tyler read analyze the Harris Juliana present.
>> Could be good evening for the record Tyler even senior
planner for planning and development services.
I'm introducing the evaluation and appraisal report year based
amendments work session
that year and you're based amendments incorporated the
results of a public visioning process which took place last
year and which was referred to as envision Seminole 2045 that
your base the Nimitz are based on the evaluation and appraisal
report of the comprehensive plan that was approved by the
Board of County commissioners on November, 1520 22 this year,
the Board of County commissioners had to work
sessions on 8/8/2023, in September 1220 23 a community
meeting took place on 8/17/2023.
Our consultants Eliza here's Giuliano is here from kenley
Warren to present the latest update to the air base than
immense and staff will be on hand to answer any questions.
Thank you.
We're going to load of the park points for you for the
presentation.
>> Bear with us for one 2nd apologize.
It is.
>> Ever gets what
yeah.
Thank you for your patience.
>> My name is Eliza here's Giuliano I've been working as a
consultant for the county throughout that vision and air
process.
So recapping a little bit of what Tyler talked about the
envision Seminole 2045 vision report was accepted by by the
commission back in November of 2022 and along with that came
an evaluation and appraisal report which was transmitted to
the state. And also approved by the by the board that time.
So because we're about a year out from that the
hundreds of plan amendments resulting from that valuation
or appraisal report have to be adopted by this November.
This is where we are in the process of since the vision
plan so we've had to work sessions with the board a
community meeting and this is the first the LP, a work
session this will come back to you for a formal
recommendation. We also have another work session with the
board coming up next week, not only our final work session
with the board.
This was based on a significant public engagement effort that
took place in 2022 we had over 300 in-person participants as
well as over 2000 online participants in surveys that
resulted in 5 vision goals, those mission goals for protect
wildlife maintain rural places grow walkable get active and be
green so those
vision goals are informing the updates that you see in front
of you.
So shifting gears a little bit as we're doing this valuation
or appraisal report we also recognize more practical issues
that need to be updated as part of the plan such as a simply
not by Tums there were issues sections in there are issues
sections of the comprehensive plan today that can cause some
confusion because they're not really policies are just sort
of a U.S. background information that isn't terribly
useful today. So we're removing those from the plan as part of
the update. There's also a new show like department aims that
have changed over the last decade that cleaning some of
those cleanup items
and then there's a big picture reorganization of future land
use element for clarity and get a little more into that
we also
essentially organized the future land use element of
based on something matic elements to help the community
understand what these different pieces of the comprehensive
plan are doing and how they interact with each other.
We've got 4 big categories, nature recreation community
building administration and resource management. So that
that doesn't change any policies. It just changes a
little bit of how we communicate to the public in
each of those will have a little introduction explaining
how the comp plan serves the community.
Now talking about the future land use element in particular
which is where a lot of the changes that are resulting from
the vision are being implemented that
the comprehensive plan is organized around the house we
both vision from 2007 that was the regional growth vision that
was put together by my region dot org involving at least 7
different counties. They came together to work on a plan that
came up with 5 goals conservation quarters,
countryside.
Centers and Center's property rights was added later by the
state, but
so right now the future land use element is organize around
those goals from 2007.
What we're recommending now doesn't change the intent of
that. But we felt that the organization was based on a
vision that wasn't specific to cast Seminole County and be
created some confusion and overlapping policies that that
weren't really helpful. So the comprehend as you can see by
the arrows that are pretty complicated is because we're
trying to make a make something more organized out of something
that wasn't organized what we would see in the most optional
why so
what we're doing now is organizing the future land use
element around those vision goals but to avoid making the
mistake that was made back in the previous comp plan we
haven't strictly adhere to those goals in some cases we
combine them, so we don't end up with that kind of repetition
that we saw in the open.
Now the second thing is right now the future land use element
only has one goal there's no rule that says you can only
have one goal and in fact we know we're trying to meet lots
of different goals through that if you through the future land
use element
that Beach existing goal is also again very much based on
the regional vision.
Again not anything negative about the regional vision.
But now we have our own vision that's more specific so
as part of this rewrite we're recommending 7 goals that are
organized around primarily around the vision. But there's
also some other elements that are more practical for nation
investments property rights and then a management piece that
art don't directly come out of the vision, but essentially our
provide a house for the policies that don't fit neatly
into the vision categories.
So I'm going to keep bringing up those mission goals so as we
talk about the the first.
The first goal we're going to discuss in detail that comes
out of the vision goals, the green and protect wildlife,
the future land use element goal that results from that we
called wildlife nature resources and sustainability
and this is the verbiage
to protect wildlife scenic beauty and human health.
With a focus on natural habitats natural resources,
I won't read the whole thing. One thing that I do like to
point out is that we have seen it up in there and beauty is
that sounds like kind of a non subjective idea
happens to be in the state of Florida Constitution. So we
think we've got really get back in there to talk about scenic
beauty is being part of the comprehensive plan.
So under that goal we've introduced a new objectives in
some cases, those objectives are just organizing existing
policies again in a more comprehensive away.
We've also had its new policies. Some are specifically
around habitat, dark skies and green buildings and then
previously this. This was House a lot of his policies were
House an umbrella that included historic in our for
archaeological resources which are still important but don't
make sense given the new structure so those have been
moved to enhance existing places.
One of the new objectives is natural lands, wildlife,
not get another one focused on water resources and
preservation.
And part of that that wildlife policy is about connecting to
the Florida wildlife corridor that's a statewide effort
that's been endorsed by the Florida Legislature, this was
something that we identified as part of the vision planning
process that was important to include in the update.
Additionally, it's consistent with essentially the science
around the importance of connected habitats having
isolated habitats isn't nearly as valuable from a conservation
standpoint that's having habitats that are connected.
Well cuyler River protection area is also a separate
objective under this essentially this is really a
reorganization and clarification exercise doesn't
significantly change any of the policies that we had gotten
feedback that this section was had some sections that were
confusing so it's basically been cleaned up, but the intent
is not to have
some changes to the kinds of development that are permitted
or the what's required.
I'm looking at the green building practices there was
already an F our bonus for green building practices
embedded within the urban center. Some quarters overlay
we're recommending expanding that 2
not quite the whole County but to the urban parts of the
county excluding the rural area and the river protection areas
and adjusting it was a draft 0.2 F our bonus that doesn't
make sense and some of the lower zones so we're looking at
instead is a 20% bonus.
We also have added a policy or an electric vehicle readiness
under that green concept.
Again under the sustainability piece we've got his policies
that really it reinforce what's the counties already doing and
some of what's happening in the in the land development code
update
that you already reviewed around Florida friendly,
encouraging not requiring but encouraging native vegetation.
And tree preservation up to the tree preservation section
responsible use of purse fertilizer and pesticides and
what that means essentially is if you put the right place the
right place don't have to apply as much a chemical management
to get them to be successful.
So we also this is not in the future land use element,
but it's a coordination item with the sanitary element there
is that a change in state law this session which
increase the requirements for septic tanks to do a better job
essentially of of getting out some of those the nitrogen and
and keeping those out of our water system.
So he enhanced septic tanks are required by the state on lot
less than or equal to one acre in the areas that you see in
this map in the Blue, so those are the the B map areas,
the Basin management action plan areas, essentially areas
that feed into water bodies that are impaired
that covers a good section of the county, but not the whole
County so as part of this we're still having a ongoing
conversation with the board on whether or not these.
This requirement should be extended into the white areas.
Those areas that are not governed by this that works not
required by the state
and a significant amount of that is in East rural area now
remember these is only required on last less than or equal to
an acre so what that means is that in the East rural area,
it doesn't necessarily apply to a lot of properties where it
could have larger lots, but it might apply for instance,
if somebody is clustering their development on to smaller lots
than they would be required to meet that were also discussing
requirement that any cluster development would be required
to use the enhanced septic.
We're taking questions now are you waiting into the end.
We'll wait to be it.
So shifting to the other end of the spectrum are talking about
conservation now we're talking about infill redevelopment grow
communities and support act life tiles those with a vision
goals which moved into the
the comprehensive plan goal to grow walkable to places centers
and orders.
So we're focused here on efficient use of land providing
housing choices and enabling multi-modal transportation
options all within an economically vibrant community.
The unincorporated areas anticipating about based on the
numbers that we looked at we started this process which that
was back in 2020 anticipating, but 40,000 residents in the
unincorporated area and the projection show that that can
be accommodated under the existing framework, what I mean
what do we mean by the existing framework. What that means is
not increasing density or intensity in the rural area.
It means not, I'm directing development towards the khyber
ECON River protection areas are really trying to focus
development in the the dark blue there which is that the
more urban portions of the county
particularly with a focus on redevelopment an infill
and centers in quarters which is undefined concept with the
comprehensive plan.
The map that you see on the right there where you see that
pink in the Blue, the pink is the quarters as they exist
today in the comprehensive plan and the blue is the center's
that exist today in the comprehensive plan as an
overlay
what we found as we look at this was that while these this
these policies around Center's headquarters have been in the
comprehensive plan for about a decade. There hasn't been a lot
of activity development activity in response to those
so as we look forward jobs or being us 40,000 residents and
all the other uses that would be associated with that.
If we don't see some some of that activity going to the
center's Encores becomes either situation where we're using up
every acre of developable land in that dark blue area outside
the rural area
or were not mean goal at all
as part of the charge out of the vision plan we. We noted
the need to
simplify those policies to make them more accessible to
development community to rethink the densities if
they're not it's not enough over a match to what
development what can happen in those centers in quarters.
That's obviously a barrier
and there's some other other issues around coordinating
infrastructure in developing redevelopment plans that go
beyond the comprehensive plan.
So what's already happening as I mentioned was already come
before you is the LDC updates that include the mixed use
corridor development district as well as the missing middle
alternative standards that would enable more mixed use
development and more medium density
residential development which is commonly and called the
missing middle and the diagram on the bottom left there.
One of the things we looked at as we were looking at center
some quarters as a result of pretty large number of smaller
lots we found around 400 lots over 400 lots when the overlay
that were under 3 acres.
Many of them are vacant, they're too small for some of
the bigger projects that the national apartment building
might come in and develop so we wanted to do some analysis
around a small to see what might be possible.
And how those could participate in this issue of addressing the
housing need as well as other needs.
So we
these are some for some illustrations of the type of
development that could happen on the smaller lots.
We find that these smaller developments often are more
attainable for a number of reasons one.
It may be that the person is accessible to build these where
somebody would own a very small. It can be part of
building and then live in it, there's also the opportunity to
do some of the smaller projects under residential loans rather
than commercial loans. And then when you have 4 or 5 tenants or
2 or 3 tenants
don't have it you're less likely to just raise the rent
you can absorb a 2 or 3% turnover, the way you can a
large coffee party complex essentially if you're a large
apartment complex. They raised the rent, they know they're
going to lose some people well if you're a small apartment
owner you're more likely to keep good tenants rather than
continually raising the rent.
By very kind of gross estimate, we said that the small sites
could absorb as much as 4500 new units
of this more compact variety, and if you go including live
works are small commercial they can a comedy another 900 small
businesses.
We also brought in some an economic some economic analysis
on this to try to evaluate again why do that wasn't
happening under the current regulations.
So the center's in quarters overlay today maxes out at 20
units an acre and if you look on the chart there that
that's not financially viable according to the analysis that
we got from the market analyst.
And that's the highest you can get that if you check all the
boxes within the bonus criteria. So it makes it pretty
clear why people haven't been using the program so it doesn't
make sense to keep it on the books, it's not going to be a
program that better than anyone is going to take advantage of
as we're getting up to 30 units we start to see some financial
viability now on the far ends 50 units an acre
that's something really attractive that that's going to
encourage investment.
So we also did some renderings of what this might look like
and in the specific context and this is if you watch the
presentation next week at the Ford will get into a little
more detail on this that we have time to get into today.
So that was a financial announces the smaller projects
we also did financial analysis of the larger projects in the
15 acre range and here we actually looked at surface and
structured parking on the smaller projects, you're not
going to have room for a parking structure. So it's a
non-issue
but we did look at structured parking and not structure so
structured parking is in green, and the surface parking is in
blue and that really changes the development economics so
you start to see a viable projects in the 30 units in
acre range. In the surface parking scenario and more like
this the 50 to 60 acre range on the structured parking scenario
and really attractive projects get higher than that.
So this is informing though the larger project densities that
we're looking at.
So this is where we
what we're proposing relative to the mixed use development
land use so there's some complexity here because there's
properties that have an xd land use that are located within the
corridors and then there are properties that have other land
uses that are also located in the quarters and we're dealing
with both of these at the same time so it's a little
confusing. It's because it's a little confusing and I thought
of his
but so right now the only way that you can take advantage of
the xd land use which is the the mixed use land use in
Seminole County
is by doing a plan development and there's some drawbacks to
that for one thing from the staff side, it means that every
project has to be negotiated and there's no says there's no
standards to point to and from the from the development side
there are some unpredictability so we're not taking that option
away but we are adding that what we've been talking about
which is the mixed use development use quarter
development zoning that people can rezone to him or Street
zoning fashion as well as the missing middle alternative
standards which provide a range of options some require
rezoning some not requiring zoning depending on how intense
of a project that you're proposing
with that we're proposing
increase densities the under the current scenario that 30
units in acre is the maximum density that's permitted.
We're suggesting that it would go up to 60 units an acre.
If you do a parking structure or if you're a smaller lot.
There are already bonuses in the comprehensive plan for
workforce housing, both for F are and a density bonus for
affordable, no income housing we're not proposing to change
that to be able to do that on top of the increased density
and intensity.
Now switching over to the urban centers and quarters overlay
which again overlays over most of the nxt properties that
exist today in the county.
This is a little bit different scenario but it essentially
we're using some of the same tool so we're still pointing to
this the new CD zoning standards and the missing
middle zoning standards that you have to abide by as well as
some additional bonus criteria in order to access this program
and it would come with
higher densities and intensities that would
hopefully attract some of that development that was envisioned
by the plan so going up to 75 units in acre on the density
side and 1.5 F are on the
intensity site.
Now that's in need. Those flu districts that have a
commercial or non residential designation
there's also properties in the squeeze quarters to have a
residential designation so we actually this is changing this
this has changed since you put together this powerpoint in
preparation for the board. We were looking at a maximum of
50 units an acre on those residential flus and we've now
taken that down to 35 units in acre based on further analysis.
But the residential flu districts, you would only be
using the missing middle standards and there's a there's
some.
There's a of some considerable amount of additional standards
that go with that missing middle peace, including looking
at your underlying zoning or your underlying future land use
and essentially I'm moderating what you can do within that
based on your underlying future land use for if you're an LBR
you maybe can only do something like that. I'm good at. We have
the chart here I have a shirt here sorry, but essentially if
you're in our one you can do cottage courts which is
essentially smaller single-family units on smaller
lots, whereas if you go into and Dr. You can do a much wider
range of uses duplex is complex is triplexes consider
considerably larger range.
We also based on feedback in the board are taking a second
look at the compatibility standards and making sure that
we're dealing with the adjacent sees an appropriate way.
Versus what's there today.
And as I say packing a lot on her because we did this in 2
presentations for the ports of trying to try to move through
quickly.
We did
at an objective or we kept the objective on support of
multi-modal transportation network as well as some
existing policies related to that we added a new policy
specifically addressing transit serve development and
essentially
if their way to the extent that properties are considered
transit served these pretty obvious if you're in within a
certain distance of sunrail you are transits served, but when
you talk about bus system. The service that can range from
and our head ways that doesn't come every day
all the way up to much more robust service. There's a big
range there and so to be considered transit serve what
we're proposing is that you have to have 15 men are better
head ways and being a quarter mile that service. That's not
something that you see a lot of in Seminole County today.
But that is what would be required to really have robust
transit service for some of these higher density
development
to be considered transit served. Okay, I'm switching
gears again to rural places.
So again this is a new goal, but it really encompasses a lot
of existing policies around preserving roll lifestyle,
landscapes including agricultural and resource base
businesses.
So not going go through all the language that this essentially
takes modify some language that already exist for the relation
to the east for Larry and recognizes that there are other
areas in
Seminole County that are also considered world by the
community and by by the county.
Without changing the applicability to the east rural
area. There's also some cleanup to do relative to the east role
area definitions because of the differences between the
original plan and the charter boundary and what happened in
the interim so we're cleaning some of that office part of
this process and clarify some of the review standards,
but no real substantive changes to the existing policies in the
East rural area.
But we have added a general objectives are preserving Roe
character in appropriate areas of Seminole County.
Along with a separate objective just for these rural area and
the policies associated with that.
And then we've got a new objective about essentially the
economic several places.
So this deals with the county supporting and encouraging the
continuation of agricultural real world businesses as well
as the kind of nature based businesses it says that help
keep these areas going that make sense for larger acreage
properties that continue to provide that scenic beauty that
we all love they need to stay viable businesses in order to
keep that that character
to the extent that they're not residential.
We also been working on the recognition of the world
enclaves so this is a there've been a number of different
communities that either express interest or that staff is
recognized as
being especially rural areas that are within the more urban
parts of the county. But they're they're very rural in
character they may have to roads they are on septic.
There may be very large lots and so we are we're adding some
policies too.
Just start the process of recognizing these areas but not
mapping any of them at this point choirs further study to
identify what the standards would be which might vary by
these different areas, some of them are up against natural
preserves some of them are surrounded by infrastructure
and also to try to map out are these designations essentially
permanent or they transitional period and that might that
might change that might vary depending on again why they're
being recognized as a rule on life.
We've also looked at cluster development process policies.
This is this is another area where we're delving into a
little more detail.
We've already done some cleanup throughout the future land use
element too essentially try to and one of the goals is Street
mentioned a lot of times in the plant, and it's mentioned in a
lot different context so one of the things that we've done is
really remove clustering from the conversation around urban
planned developments to the extent that density is moved
around essentially in urban plan development that is
something that makes sense that's part of the reason that
plan developments exist as a tool, but it's doesn't create
the world class during our natural clustering that people
expect more top using that terminology and based on the
policies and plans that are talking about preserving
natural environments are preserving world characters so
we want to separate those 2 things they're really very
different conversations. We're talking about the that
rural side of it.
We're being consistent with the Florida wildlife corridor where
they do recognize agricultural and working lands that are open
lands as part of that landscape that actually support of a
wildlife.
But there are some outstanding issues that we're still working
through including that there's language in some areas of the
complement talk about a minimal one acre some areas to talk
about a half acre within the rural area. Just kind of
clarify where the county want to go on that they're not
directly in conflict. But there's there's a need to
really reconcile and pick a direction there
similarly we there's been discussion around the cluster
bonus in a 10 which allows you to have potentially up to
double the density which would mean one per 5 so still not a
terribly high density
in return for preserving about 80% of the land so that's
something that we're framing up for the board at that meeting
next week to to have them continued discussion on.
Finally Agra tourism this is an area where there there's an
existing policy that sets up a board.
But it doesn't really talk about or ever tourism and Agra
tourism is an issue in the county, it's something that
that that it both is something that the county wants support
because it does help to maintain those rural lands.
But it also is an important area be clear about what's
truly agriculture. What's
when uses are trying to cut piggyback on that over tourism
policy in ways that don't make sense so we've essentially look
to the floor statutes incorporated language that's
very consistent with the Florida statutes for this new
Agra tourism policy and then separated out the agricultural
advisory board into its own policy.
That concludes the presentation.
Questions of staff and the consultant.
This to us.
>> Yeah, I'm going back to the septic.
The cemetery element.
Days of this.
So you're looking to make some amendments to the to the plan.
Lots greater then
half acre.
>> So it's less than or equal one acre.
>> So why is there less than one acre you're going want to
enhance septic system to expand a little bit more on what's
considered a and just septic system sure about the some of
the systems can cost up to like 3040 $50,000.
>> So we do have more detail that that we can make available
about the costs.
There's a range of
of opportunities for detectives you get to choose which system
you get in there some of that are on the lower side and some
that are on the more expensive site including passive systems
which are very comparable in cost to the the conventional
systems, the catch with the passive systems is that they.
They have a little bit different land requirements but
to get real. Thank you Tyler first jump in there.
>> So we do have some of the costs estimates here. So for
the defense system we have tests
range from 10,000 to 25,000.
And that's for the installation and the unit and then there's
an annual maintenance costs of 475.
There are $475 to $675.
Yes compared to
that's the conventional is 11,015 1900 for the insulation
and unit and then the annual maintenance is a $100 to under
$60.
The passive is the most expensive 12,500 to $21,500.
With the annual maintenance of 10 to 30 on dollars.
>> What's being considered then is that they're they're asking
existing homeowners.
>> We know so our understanding of the new yes, so so for
starters, it's just to reiterate in all the blue areas
that is state mandated that's not a decision the county gets
to make the state of mandating systems on those types of
properties as we understand it is only for new permits so if
you're if you have an existing unit, even if you're replacing
existing unit, the state is not requiring those units to be
advanced so it only be for new permits.
>> With so we say new permits that's a new construction
preconstruction not so not a replacement of. That's my
understanding of the new constructions.
>> This is that the open question is for the white areas
which are not governed by the state do we want to meet the
state requirements.
And the way one of the ways we bring this up is the blue,
especially as those waters that are already impaired we want to
keep our an impaired waters an impaired so that's.
>> That's one way to Fresno in years past the deceptive
discussion of septic system says it's been around.
Yeah, and it's the realtor Association has been one of the
biggest opponents know, but this that was more focused on
the existing system. So this is truly for new construction
permits only.
The assumption is we can't do anything other than septic in
these areas.
So there without infrastructure.
>> Well, there are there there's within the blue area,
there are properties obviously have connection to a central
sewer, so this would requirement would only be if
you're allowed to have septic tank. If you because we do have
requirements conference of plan in Arco the for connection
requirements so this would only be if you're eligible to have a
septic tank.
And I guess the question we have it for the board and where
we're going to further discussion with the Board of
County commissioners on Tuesday is do we want to expand the
requirement for the advanced septic systems to those areas
within the rural area and then there's a small area around
Longwood that it's not currently require do we want to
basically have the same standard the statewide standard
County wide.
And if you would like to provide your input, a
recommendation we can move that forward to the Board of County
commissioner, yeah, your thoughts on that.
>> I guess my my only thought the guards to the new
construction is obviously the more expensive the system
that's going to increase the cost of the construction
increase the video call housing costs in general which is
well he's become more of a burden you know for for the
average consumer out there.
>> And the less of economic viability that seems to have
been taken into account. You know we just make it even
harder.
Adding that increased provisions.
>> I see I have a question wearing here we preserving
property right for the property owners. I couldn't really see
much it seems like we're dictating everything that
property owner can do and I don't see any real preservation
of property right shin here.
>> So there is an existing property rights element in the
comprehensive plan and there's also an existing property
rights. What's not a goal but where there's existing property
right section in the future land use element so we've not
made any changes to that that was a fairly recent
improve a change to the comprehensive plan to add those
so we're we're we're not removing anything we're just
not making any changes to it.
>> So we're dictating what the property rights are for the
individual that owns the property pretty much.
>> So right so the cap, the comprehensive plan limits today
limits how much development opportunity there is on every
property in the county in many instances, particularly within
the walkable and active places were significantly increasing
the development potential of these properties does come with
some some development code standards
but generally speaking a week by law there
general you can't decrease people's development rights and
we're not proposing to do that.
Further questions of
staff so much for you to come or nose.
>> I wanted the case faces a test. Is not questions the
board discussion.
>> It is there something that we need to produce said not a
vote but something for that at this point that this is a work
session and preparation for the 4 donantes will be bringing
forward so we will be bringing forward a trans middle
ordinance for the conference of plan amendments to the
conference of plan believe those are scheduled for your
next meeting November. 1st, the only other issue that we're
going to have further discussion with the board on
Tuesday that I'm not sure if you want to weigh in on one of
the questions that we posed to the board is currently within
the East rural area if you do a cluster. Subdivision you stuff
to maintain the proposed density but you are allowed to
have a minimum lot size of an acre.
And so our question to the board is to shed that minimum
lot size be a half acre site right now you can do a half
acre been a lot size for cluster. The question is do
allow an acre or half acre because there is some
inconsistency between the land development code and the
conference of plan related to that minimum lot size for
questioning.
>> You know, I agree a 100% I think we really got to clean up
the language because as we all know, we ran into that on the
one piece of property and I would like to see a real good
clarification of what we can share the cost because I I read
into it and there's just a 1000 different variations of were
close to comey term. I would like to see that cleaned up I
sort of agree with you with a one acre a guy like that you
know if you're you've got you know a 100 acres of property
and you can put 20 homes on their you know, and you utilize
20 acres for those 20 homes. That also would fall in line
with the septic tank requirement. Now based on what
they can launch we I don't think you'd want to see him
going small because and they wouldn't be able to have such
septic tank system.
So.
>> Packed their 5 so right now the enhanced septic is required
if you're equal to or less than an acre or 1.1 acres year.
>> You can do a conventional system right and then that's
where my point is I think you know that way there the
homeowner has an opportunity to say 15,000 more.
And the ongoing maintenance costs and yeah.
>> Well in just to clarify in terms of the different Cheryl
the teen between the 2 types of skeptics, it's really about 3
to $5,000 difference that annual maintenance also yeah,
there's a homeowner yeah.
We could potentially get I would really like to see that
that take care of though because I think that
and from the Royal bhangra I know that your feedback is
you'd prefer to see the minimum lot size in the rural area for
clustering subdivisions that one acre I would like to see
that that would be my personal yeah, yeah, but it's not a that
still doesn't protect it from the subject the subject is one
acre or less right.
So unless it's a little bit more than an acre years,
but it keep it out of that.
>> 1, 1, 0.1 I have all options.
>> Well and the other thing that's a good I think we are
ready to it currently staff's recommending from an
environmental perspective for any clustered subdivision
within the rural area that we would require the advanced
septic tanks.
>> Can we get confirmation on the wording that looking at
here on and and this power point presentation is it says
new permits only and so I understand the intent might
before. A new development and construction.
But 10 interpretation of over it.
Long policy could be 2 very different things.
>> Yeah, that I agree with you Dan, I mean I knew prominent.
It when you go to replace a septic tank that's a new permit
right. Yeah, exactly and there will be somebody that will take
that out of context, I'm sure.
>> We yes we can look into that and verify before the
transmittal hearing when we come before you in November and
make sure that the reference to new permits in Florida statute
says referring to actual new construction, not just a new
septic tank that would be wonderful. Yeah,
I'll be honest.
And.
>> That is a good enough then for this item.
>> Yes, and we just wanted to make sure that we introduced
you to the material before we brought the ordinance before
you it will be a transmittal hearing and then so if there's
any issues concerns we can address those between
transmittal and adoption.
>> Excellent then moving its closing business of the
director's report for you have anything for sure.
>> I do have a lot we are in the process of hiring or I
wouldn't say hiring of interviewing candidates for the
planning manager position, Kathy Hamill is are acting
division manager. I'm so she may be attending the next
meeting
and other than that a new news.
I apologize actually want to update the land development
code update.
Planning and zoning recommended approval to of the first
reading of land of all code amendments and associate and
transmit all the Associated conference of plan amendments
we did bring those before the board they recommended a
continuance to October 24th. So hopefully at that at that
meeting the vote to approve upon first reading in transmit
dad, the conference of plan amendments.
>> Thank you there's something else