>> Yes good morning. How are you ready. Yes,
I'm just more than ready.
>> Good morning and happy New Year to all we're going to the
meeting started here on 1/9/2020 2020 24. I hope
everybody had a good enjoy this holiday.
We're going to start with occasion by one of our
employees Kurt is going to give us invocation and I'm going to
ask Jeremiah Robinson, one of our employees and it who is
also a veteran
war veteran to say the pledge.
It in the father son and the Holy spirit Amen that we follow
you, thanks and praise Lord for this glorious day we thank you
Lord for this new year that is upon us I think you Lord for
the blessings that Seminole County has received over the
years and Lord we pray for continuous blessings for our
County, I just asked Lord for wisdom and guidance for each
and every one of our commissioners that are here
today as we start off this new year. County manager our County
attorney and all of our staff and leaders we thank you Lord
for the beautiful County of Seminole that is a natural
choice for so many of us and that we enjoy this County and
we continue to pray for that to thrive and to be a great place
to work live work and play a solar as we today we know that
there is some severe weather. We asked Lord that that we
would be safe please safe keep us safe from any storms and
that may be coming into this area and for those that mean
half of the storm would pay for their safety we pray for those
that are they're protecting our country are those in military
those in public service. Our our firefighters, our
police meant and all of us here in Seminole County as as public
servants please keep us safe Lord so we ask your blessing to
Christ, our Lord Amen and father son and the Holy spirit
Amen
please join us in the Americans in the pledge of allegiance.
>> United States of America for which it stands one nation
under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all.
>> Thank you Kurt, thank you Jeremiah
you see we have a pretty deep roster here in our staff,
so that works out pretty good. Wonderful.
Next we're going to move towards and presentation of
proclamations presentation Bobcats we put on by Jamey
Johnson, senior wildlife of that as systems filed just
Florida Fish and Wildlife conservation Commission.
Please come up and get ready to give us your
presentation
also just a quick reminder please silence your electronic
devices cell phones and so forth so make sure that we're
not interrupting our presenters thank you.
>> Good morning, thanks so much for having me these
good morning when some Jayne Johnston I'm a senior wildlife
assistance biologist, the Florida Fish and Wildlife
conservation Commission and I'm going to talk about the
wildlife assistance program and some of the calls we get from
residents here in Seminole County. I was was asked to
present on Coyotes and bobcats which I will be talking about
those 2 species but believe it or not there are some of the
ones that leading the pack so to speak so we the factions and
a couple other species as well.
With little bit about our program, the wildlife
assistance for am Monday through Friday, 8 to 5 has
filed just spent about the state that calls from the
public experience in some type of conflict with wildlife and
our goal is to address the conflict, give them some
options to mitigate the conflict or prevent and avoid
but really Foster coexistence of keeping people pets and
livestock safe but also being able to keep the wildlife on
the landscape as well so primarily a lot of this market
said over the phone we have a lot of technical assistance
which is guidance and advice of the gifted colors you can do
some equipment land. And some other work that out talk about
a few spots we also have a lot of partnerships with
municipalities with County Health Department services to
help us accomplish these goals as well as some
non-governmental organizations. Throughout the state like
Audubon are defenders of wildlife.
We prefer to do more proactive engagement we want to get ahead
of it before it becomes a conflict we really want to get
information into the hands of a lot of people because our state
is a beautiful place and a lot of people come here and they
realized the about as well as that we have
so what kind of hold your hand by the wildlife assistance
program so it's going to be a nuisance wildlife calls
nuisance is actually defined for the administrative code as
an individual animal that is causing about to cost property
damage. It's an animal that could be present a threat to
public safety war it's causing annoyance in on or under a
building so nuisance is actually defined and applies to
an individual animal's behavior. And there are
additional Ford administration code we'll let the public know
what they can or can't do about it so a lot of the work we do
have we allowed the public to manage this specific species
with the exception of theirs because we take those costs
too.
So caused by species by year fiscal year it is June one to
our July one to June 30 so last year we took over 14,000 calls.
There's always lead as you guys were very well know in this
County number 2 that statewide our priorities and then we
start to get her actions. Sometimes some other idea
identified species where people send us a picture we count on
coming on, and then it goes down from there. There is some
seasonality the calls you can see in October. There's a peak
we can pretty much assume that spares us so much and then in
spring we get another piece because they're start
dispersing but also there's a lot of disperse on the mend of
other wildlife like Coyotes and raccoons there's a nesting
birds that don't particularly like people closer nest talk
about this.
Your top 5 species after mayors and Seminole County over the
last 3 fiscal years are tired these are the top of that was
behind theirs and then that's it. So what we're fine with
that says they are finding 3 sites inside of structures,
this could be people's homes, businesses schools could be a
variety of places we do take a lot of that calls from this
County as well. Well after is our next on that list,
primarily grandchildren Hawks who are very defensive their
nest, so they will sit dive bombing him for trying to
injure people trying to protect their mates and babies and
vultures because they like to be on the highest peak of the
building which usually someone spill Cage for the 3rd story of
their house and they do. So people don't really
appreciate that too much not a lot of attention with these
species because you really just have to look at your house,
your structure to make sure that can't fit in there and
maybe put up some birds spice that bill had to turn the 3
sting of the waters as well.
The new directions and then but cats so not too many bobcat
here in Seminole County.
A little bit about these species and all probably try to
do a brief overview to keep the time. Keep us in some time
here, but the parents of bobcats are going to be 12 to
20 pounds to play twice. The size of a domestic cat,
they're spotted they have a short tail which is how they
got the name that tail is unlike the 2 inch tablet PC on
domestic animals that can be 5 to 7 inches long so these are
often mistaken for Panthers but we have more about cats here in
Seminole County even those their diet is there conversely
but the corridor so they hunted for meat but they're from a
phrase for it to have its he really other mammals as well
ranges usually 5 to 6 square miles which will include
several communities that they're living in an urban area
and they can even use a smaller spaces are closed to people
their behavior. They are just color with just like mayors and
other species most active during a spin on cancer nappers
they only take a couple hours of sleep. They go somewhere
else in there and their range they look for food and shelter
and they continuously just tell that range so they can be seen
during the day and overnight as well.
Concert just humans tends to be fear that people are afraid
that they're going to talk about gets of pets can be a
concern that livestock because that we keep things that found
cats like the chickens and rabbits. So that can get
conflict as well.
Your mom kept for calls are going to be those calls that
need that uses definition of causing annoyance in honor
under building presenting a public safety risk or if they
are causing about caused property damage miss the
property damage tons to be pets and livestock. Majority the
calls are non core that those who perpetrated by people's
concerns and and fear for their own safety, the safety of
children are seniors or their pets. So we do addresses
concerns and let them know we have just had to be very
solitary. So when they made their list there together last
week and then when she's raising her kittens or cause
you can use either term if she raises them within a year they
dispersed so they they are not type a bit of an animal
with raccoons their union says they have that masking that
ring tailed really common in residential areas of course
much smaller than about Pat. I certainly will defend
themselves if they get startled by percent. Their diet is that
it's that to pull the eating haha it's very simple so they
can get it they will do it. This of course includes garbage
pet food, bird seed. Troops come to a different I kind of
get stuffed their range varies depending on how much shelter
food sources they have access to and we still tend to see
more actions, residential areas and you do see in the wild
because they're able to utilize more resources and find more
shelter within smaller area with their nearest
that conflicts with humans well part of their behavior is that
they're running around all the time in their territory,
you know, especially if they're feeding younger of the kraken
to eat more often more frequently so that might be
seen during the day so get a lot of calls and a sock and run
the date must be sick but that's not the case. So the
complex of all of them walking through cat and dog doors.
They'd like to use pools part of their scientific name is
that right hand washer say like to get in pools and wash your
food then they also the and so they can shed the ground war
eggs into the bill which could be detrimental to people as
well as that sounds
coroner calls. And we definitely get very few these
these are going to involve approaching as you can have
food getting into pools, mostly non 4 calls because they saw
back in during the day
tired of these. So their parents adults can be 25 to 40
pounds. A lot of times you get reports there's because the
German Shepherd to not quite that large, but they do have
very long guard. Here's when they're startled are sick or
defensive are not sick, sorry, when they're startled defensive
were scared, they raise those guard hears and they may appear
they are which is the same thing we tell people doing
encounter wildlife, you should appear larger also their diet
of a also it said it will be that just like back and kind of
second include a lot of things related to people their range
and natural space is about 15 square miles so it's a pretty
big area. But when they start moving into communities which
they do they only need about 3 square miles of space that
means they can find all the Finnish off of the need to
support their mate because they mate for life and the offspring
and they'll have a litter of pups every year
their behavior they can be there also could pass color
differences, dusk and dawn can be seen during the day and
overnight espoused conflicts with humans cats so Ebola have
missing caps these are free don't capture and continued in
attendance. Unfortunately there for a four-legged furry things
and that's what I would like to eat and they don't understand
the concept of pets. We don't associate their fear of humans
with our things. So unfortunately, cast and to be
the the best sides fear the largest conflict we have with
Coyotes.
So the court calls. Many more calls about Coyotes are non
core. The core those were positive to be missing cast
very rarely do we actually found the cat has been
decorated on by a Coyote but a lot of fear because Coyotes
live in a family here that male and female mate for life they
established that territory within your residential area
and this other developments nearby, they're very vocal and
visible and so we do get a lot of calls because it can be
intimidating if you're running into a kind family group and
now you're seeing 6 counties wants second to mid 80 S
because Coyotes are second to bears and alligators not going
to touch on today, they definitely got a conflict calls
to that's the one thing we don't manage in Raleigh since
program that because it is are such a serious concern around
the state we develop some different tools and resources
and methods of trying to purge that one gauge and talk a
little bit about here,
we'll go to HR ways will work but cities counties do
workshops where we teach people about Katie biology behavior
given legal options and how to scare them off how to protect
your pets and livestock. We have a plethora of materials
that we can distribute mail handout. We also have
disposable signs so high these are seasonal so we do get
spikes and piety calls and people can ask for us to ship
signs to an H.O.A. or Park and they can put the signs out in
the high activities high just alert everybody visiting the
area and then they can keep those signs and take them down
they're not be did we do residential training to teach
them how to haze Coyotes. I think because TV and movies.
Of course show us a lot of people being harmed by these
animals because that's what unfortunately makes for
interesting content. There are hundreds of thousands of
interactions between us and wildlife every day that no one
ever has said it's not nearly as exciting or staying. So this
we want to teach people uk's these animals or scare them off
and they're not going to attack you if they cannot afford to be
injured, we will help people with the tracks and
identification and also they can do selfie our job is to
figure out why is this animal wanting to be my yard. We will
do Quicken loans. But round cameras or with hazing devices
which include water jets and different types of alarms.
And the Humane Society of the United States has put a frame
work together for municipalities to work on
developing a hiring manager plans if they think they need
it and we can assist municipalities are doing that
as well.
So this is an animated map and you'll see we'll start out with
Bob Castle kind of going from the your calls to them more
calls. So bobcat's pretty well dispersed tracking calls pretty
wearable spare us, but if you notice the Coyote calls and
come up. They are the triangle's lot of activity on
the eastern side of i-four their calls I'm here activity
on the western side of i-four I find interesting is about just
I don't know why that is but I still find that to be very
interesting Kyra teas and need smaller space. Some of those
calls to if you've got 10 residents to come to Colin
about seeing a Coyote they thought they saw 10 pieties for
Kyle usually seen the same one 2 so that kind of gives you a
perspective on the destruction here in the county. Some unique
differences between these animals pieties will establish
shared racing with within communities. So they don't have
once they've established a mate for life and that's their
territory. They stay in it they raise their young in it.
They live in family groups that are very visible may vocalize
and that's what people usually no there there and why they get
blamed for a lot of the missing cats but they free been kept a
cat colonies are our biggest conflict with that it statewide
Bobcats thriving urban areas because we've we've made great
habitats for them where we live so they are very adept they
take free raising chickens, they will take unsecured loads
and rabbits chickens, birds and rabbits or something maybe
naturally so they will take advantage explained that type
of resource and so that's where we end of the some of that
conflict. We've had pictures sometimes Bobcats cashing these
animals inside of a neighborhood because they do
kind of story until they're finished eating it and then
they come back to re to a revisit it and finish it off.
What tunes pools of course so securing the rules important if
you have an opportunity. They have a climbing ability.
So you thought your Coyotes and bobcats are on the force on a
landscape that you're able to have a crack in the pine trees
climb homes and they can use the part of the landscape is
well off food and for shelter. So they do end up in people's
call spaces next and they will use 10 tours so they figured
out pets defended well how gets it inside your house to less
than ideal.
Common solutions though the same a lot of the same
information as if there's you know security attracted secure
the food sources, pet food garbage, fallen fruit. And the
animals themselves, you know if you secure that is secure in
your pet's there's a picture here the modified cash which is
a patio forecast Castle was able to go outside protected
from wildlife wildlife is protected from it as well,
even offense jarred people should be attending to their
pets because all of these animals can climb or jump
fences and so you want to be out there with especially with
your sponsored talks to be sure that they don't become prey for
one of the wildlife species security structures. So I'm
going to touch back on that for a minute so as we head into
spring, they're going to be looking for them attorney 3
sites for the spring and summer time and so anywhere you to the
end of your thumb they can fit into that space in your home,
so it's a good idea to do an inspection head of time to make
sure they can get in there because once one gets in there
sometimes they reached in colonies of hundreds. And then
we'll see if you can put a pool cover okay, John you can
prevent vaccines and other animals from getting nature
coast. While you can Hayes scare off the wildlife. Again
that's the most uncomfortable thing for most people to do but
definitely yes we have had that too a focused approach with the
attractants in scaring scary will get them to alter their
behavior become more nocturnal they're not going to be the
area because they've established residential areas,
the territory. But they will want to avoid you at all costs
so while you're sleeping and then they're able to be out and
about in your neighborhood and that provides its own kind of
safety and protection and of course record that when Forsman
so just like it's illegal to feed bears intentionally and
unintentionally toss illegal to feed raccoons and Coyotes and
foxes intentionally and unintentionally. So we have
some regulatory enforcement that we can be engaged in.
We can also sometimes calling top us in counties that they've
got ordinances about feeding have colonies are keeping dogs
on leashes well to kind of compliment each other in the
different kind of regulatory options we may have to protect
people pets and livestock.
And for questions we do encourage people to call our
regional office the region, you're in the Northeast region
that offices in Ocala there's always a wildlife assistance
biologist available Monday through Friday 8, 5, and also
visit our website lot of information there and then ask
a to BC as a function where you can Smith and question along
with some videos and some voters if you need more
information so.
Thank you so much. Thank you, Jay very much questions or
comments from the board.
That starts foreign commissioner Constantine will
come right down the one. Great presentation. Thank you
very much. Just a couple of things.
>> You know you mentioned that Sun everything I okay, I've got
to say I'm a lot of these questions are you know around
where I live.
I love you like and I have lots of acts come out at night and
everything but I have no mosquitoes, I'm very few
mosquitoes on my deck is that I mean that is a correlation,
correct.
>> Yes, bats are insect divorce, which means they need
any flying insects that includes casinos and also
includes a lot of models that there are a lot of 10 seed a
lot of the few we like to eat so they're very beneficial
important. But yes, they will help control bus.
>> And one of the one of the animals didn't mention or feral
cats. And you know because I live on a on a lake I also have
a sand Beach.
Catch think it's the biggest Kitty litter in the world.
You know he's there. It but also Africans and I will hear
a very interesting. It almost sounds like a, you know,
and then the fights a you know a late at night is that between
the cats and the raccoons are usually I think so I know it's
not my neighborhood by them. It you know, that's you know
the direct cause have become as you said very familiar with the
location they are. I have a flat roof, they're constantly
on the roof they almost sound like reindeer up there playing
soccer something like that it night but is there anything to
keep them off the roof.
>> Have to figure out how they're accessing the roof
which they could treat their city so you know if you get
there walking up the stairs that electrified map would work
well just preventing access to the stairs. And you could
course use some of the motion activated deterrence well.
They will eventually figure out how to feed those you've got
Tatum you've got to catch you off guard all the time so.
>> That very bad smelling step that they sell it. The various
stores to put around.
>> That doesn't work. It's not as effective if it does work
you have to reapply it frequently because the kind of
weather we've had the last couple weeks to be out there
all the time and as soon as it rains, it's gone again. So
that's when we really work on more prominent solutions that
are not going to have to be applied on a daily basis.
>> One of the other animals didn't mention and I have a lot
of especially because the same they like to come up on the
beach
is honors. Have a lot of otters they dig they play in the sand
and scared, feral cats way in which I love the honors them,
but is there anything to concern yourself with daughters
and an.
>> Yeah, our conflict tends to be that especially if you're
outside with your dog if it's mating season or if I have a
baby's nearby that water resource they are going to be
defensive and if you've ever seen otters mouth, they have
TCE country things and so that can be intimidating so they can
be very defensive, especially towards pets. We do also get
complaints about them just being a part and a fish or
turtles and then we usually recommend in that case people
create some structures that can hide from predators but yeah
honors don't tend to cause many complex as some of the other
species that we have.
Commissioner Lockhart
so a lot of your purple triangles were in my district
and and one of the
fascinating things I found is that everyone has their own
idea about how to handle Coyotes. Yes, and then they
share those ideas usually in a neighborhood facebook group on
the nextdoor app and now we have people conflict.
Right, yeah, so you know one man's hazing as another man's
cruelty
and
I love the resources that you have available if there's a way
that we could link to those quickly through our social
media or through our Web site so that we can point our
residents. I did have the opportunity to post your power
point. And one of the groups that they could see that this
was going this presentation was going to be made and have some
resources.
I think the selfie are check is fabulous saying I that's
fantastic resource that you have out there we just don't
know I think as citizens what it is that you do offer.
We have so many new people moving here from out of the
state.
I you're proactive approach and communication is going to be
credible I think for folks to understand.
So one of the questions that was asked was
would they do a control our allocation program for us.
>> That's a great question. So what you know what we've
learned about pieties has been primarily from Mike their urban
Coyote project in downtown Chicago because there are
Coyotes that were there. They live in New York City the
downtown Denver. And so there's a lot of research that's been
done they have they have their territorial and they have a
very high replacement ability and so we found that
eradicating Kyra tease is not an effective method for dealing
with that the conflict. I'm usually when we have to work
with communities we get that information they've chosen to
do a lot of patients are usually calling us back 6
months to a year later with the same issues that they have
before because they didn't address the attractive amazing
issues. So they are able to place themselves right quickly
because if she loses her young sometime during that year she
can produce morning on the following year to replace them.
And so that's why those are out of patient efforts are
unsuccessful and kyrie's were relegated mostly to the Midwest
and West Coast. But the more that we put pressure on them
and we've creatives who will have a test for them which is a
lot of the places we live. They've expanded in range and
number over the last 100 years so that was one of the
questions we actually were talking about earlier. How did
they even get here because we always think of them as being a
wily icon I why I o T desert West right so yes, it between
revocation of out of red and Grey Bulls because we stopped
redwolves here in Florida. A 100 years ago and the
conversion a lot of forest agricultural lands you've got a
lot of flat landscape with some force to areas that are
adjacent that he's given in the bill which expands. You
mentioned Florida, okay, you mentioned in your presentation
that they that fences don't necessarily keep them out so if
someone has a very tight all chain-link fence or 6 foot
privacy fence around their yard. Can they be assured that
a Coyote won't come in their yard. Not necessarily on that
Kyra tease can jump over the fence is they can't clear the
fat so often we see them doing is they're able to jump high
enough to hook their front paws ever and they put all the rest
of the way ever with their back feet so applying a hot wire to
the top offense or what's called a Coyote roller so they
go into their cars that they will back off the same side
that they were trying to jump from is more affected or just
being out there with your pets and not letting them be free
bombing out there unfortunately that's what those conflicts
that we've seen
hazing is a sense of false security essentially ahead.
So in my house we had a conversation about that last
night and what whether or not a 60 pound goldendoodle would be
able to manage a Coyote because someone didn't want to go out
with the dogs last night.
So can you can you handle that marital dispute. Yes, it's so
the couple things it's helpful to know that Kyra I'm going to
take on a a larger themselves because they've been here
really know that they're on the losing end of that kind of
battle. So that's one the second is that the county is
already in the yard and that's when the conflict is most
likely happened so even going ahead if you're letting the
dogs out is even another more effective to but but he he did
on state and counties. Possums raccoons like there are so many
things in the Medicare guests, yeah, absolutely and then one
last question.
>> Sandhill cranes are obviously wonderful creatures
and they're protected in many ways, but I there was something
that I read recently about you talk about there's not being if
you can't feed knowingly or unknowingly bears are sandhill
cranes in that same category.
>> It's illegal to intentionally feet out all
kinds, they does not protect from unintentional feeding
which could be if people have like bird feeders out smaller
birds by the bird feeder but of course the voice for the seat
all over the ground and and and the sandhill cranes are eating
that that may not necessarily be and term it is as intent
repeated by law enforcement.
>> And and I have to commissioner Constantine's
point I think there's a yin and Yang in all of this, you know
people find that to be annoying but you don't have the
mosquitoes. We have a lot of cat lovers who feed. Feral cat
colonies. They create problems and are an attractive and so
there's always that you know again one man's hazing and is
another man's cruelty one man's favorite animal is another
person's nuisance so it's it's a challenge. Thank you and we
does we will definitely be reaching out to get a lot of
those resources from us to think you said that can you
send that map to us that was you had it click on the live
live could you actually done this we'd love to see okay,
I think it just didn't print well. Oh, yeah oh, yeah,
because and made it such a young guy so much chair the
resource that you think use your to meet Mister Lauren
thank you. Mister chairman first of all thank you again
for your
and remind us.
>> Hook that easy. First I want to say thank you.
>> The presentation was well done and very informative
looking at the data of the Coyote
court complaints because that's one of the biggest issues that
we get really in my office we had and you can see year to
year.
Cue the court to places around can but last year went up to
just under 20 should almost doubled last year and is your
reason for that.
>> I can't speak specifically in research concept that there
is but anecdotally you know as we do we have as people move
here and we forced to become converted into more
development. But you've got those open spaces that carries
line with those forced did usually those medications
preserves and within those communities 30 bill utilized
and because they are able to utilize a smaller area in the
urban environment, you essentially can have more time
he's in an urban landscape, the need in the wild so combination
of those those is what's driving calls.
>> So what point do you in your professional opinion believe
that there is an issue in the urban area. When it comes to
the Coyote conflicts.
>> Yeah, it's going to be very similar to theirs were really
in at ask if somebody is calling us about Katie's we're
probably going to ask a lot of questions so we can understand
the depth and the breadth of what the situation might be
because we will as we head into the spring time and kind of
post are emerging the male Coyotes will start falling
people are walking their dogs, especially at the family's
you're buying that's intimidating when they're just
following that can be intimidating but you definitely
want to get to talk to people that point because if they let
that continue now that the kind of make it closer and closer.
We have situations where Coyotes have harm to pets and
so it's very similar to a bear management where we can't let
that continue to persist because it could eventually
lead to conflict with people because we care about and
that's Amanda Benner seeking getting hurt.
>> The reason I'm asking these questions in 2018 were just
under 3020 19 we just went above 10 so should become attic
drop from 18 to 19. And I'm assuming that it's very hard to
articulate why that happened.
>> It is and sometimes what we find with what we're talking to
people they'll say well 15 acres of cotton about Coyotes,
but the calls don't always and so I make it to the fwc they
may call animal services are calling their local law
enforcement we may not always know about the amount of
conflict that's going on. And one of the downsides to
that is if I can see those calls coming in that it's
harder for need to know if we need to do that proactive
engagement or come out and work with those communities.
>> So the first thing we should be doing is making sure that
the number calls are accurate and that people are are
reporting. What's actually happening so we can see the
trend.
In those neighborhoods so that if there is a trend of
increased that we can be more more proactive exactly correct.
Yes, how would you help us do that how can we get the word
out to do that.
Yeah, I think that's the issue.
>> Yes, certain sharing. Some of our online resources.
You know, we recently had our public information officer for
this region tradeweb or do an interview that aired on Friday
for Seminole County residents about Coyotes. We are getting
there is an uptick in calls in this County. So we are planning
for some either social media ads to address a specific to
Seminole County residents. So in sharing any information
that we've got available. We've got some social media
packages we can send you know just pushing that information
out there are really encouraging people call the
regional office number. So we have our dispatch number which
is the 24 hours a day 7 days a week that's really focused on
violations and emergencies. So if they call the regional
office of them not experienced emergency in violation battle
will be able to capture those calls better because we do not
know any database so that.
>> Mister chairman, I know there are staff works very well
and if a state chooses just think that there needs to be
discontinuing can coronation between so that if there is an
uptick cupcake
that not just the county, but the state could be more
proactive
thank you. Mister chairman thank you for thank you Sir.
>> I will talk about anything that's already been talked
about other than to say excellent presentation.
Do you do long-range planning in the background for that
question is that if you just
simply do the math on the Coyote population.
They breed every year when there's a replacement needing
naturally breed again they're having 6 pops mean if you let
dogs and cats proliferate like that we would have them
everywhere and so I look at this and say I you know if
there's really no natural deterrent which was the reason
why there.
The population is expanding and where does this end.
>> Now that's a common question because you what you think
about here that has at kids 3 to 4 pups is usually what we
see that cannot have an average of 6. You think now you're
going to have you know over the years 1224 50 Coyotes, the
resources and shelter that's available can only support so
many send these are a number of French and hatchery sources why
it's important to secure attractants because the more
and to project for human related resources are
available. It will give them a false sense that they can
support more offspring which is not where you're going to want
in the area. We're not necessarily seeing the high
population why we are not monitoring that. So that's
something that we don't keep track of. We have that we look
at the calls and that's kind of how we she's had to do our work
so probably not the best minds, the specific answer to that but
I do understand what you're asking. So
>> so I would tell you and I can only speak to district 5,
but the population is absolutely growing in the 20
some years that I've lived out there we went from 0 sightings
to its a regular occurrence and they are.
I won't say aggressive but more familiar and more comfortable
with approaching people accept or there they walk down the
middle of the street in the middle of the day they do
follow people. And I live in that so district 5 butts up
against the preserve.
And in the beginning the issue was deer and then the
occasional turkey and now it's literally everything and the
scariest I think position for folks that do have fences is
now they are in the yard. If you accidentally let the dog
out because you can't see it and it can't get out of the
yard fast enough because of the way it came over the fence.
So it is it is I think it said a danger to humans as well as
pets as well as
kids it with a population thriving the way it is I don't
need a 1000 phone calls to my office, I'm not advocating that
anybody do anything radical here just saying we need a
long-term plan of what what is it that we need to do to
include us providing more education around they it will
naturally limit if we stop giving them food.
>> Right yeah, it does take more of a community effort and
there's multiple things that we need to happen so and you know
Coyotes were when we documented hires coming in to say for that
goes back to the 1980's, it's likely they were here a little
bit earlier seeing more of them isn't that just filling in all
that they can space right and that's my point yes that what
they view as vacant space we view as a private property.
I'm so happy to work with you in your district and do any
kind we can do okay workshop we can do some training residents.
We continue our not it's whatever you need we are
available. Thank you thank you. We will take you up on that
offer okay, thank you very kindly. We don't currently have
a problem with.
>> The species and district 2 so I'll let you thank you very
much for taking your time and indulging us with your answers
to all the questions and appreciate coming down share
with us today.
>> It's certainly very welcome. Thank you thank you very much.
Thank you.
>> All right, we'll move on to our next presentation was going
to get real Mills from the soil water conservation district
while she's coming down want to remind. Anybody that wants to
speak, you need to fill out when these yellow forms in the
lobby, if you don't want to speak and just want a written
comment on the record.
Pick up the green want all information.
Given Saddam in a gray here on the
front of us.
She's the clerk she'll get that to us make sure we're able to
read that so
if you want to speak at the yellow form you don't want to
speak in this right of the green form.
Good morning Gabriel.
>> Good morning, I'm happy New Year and I have a a short
report of some of the accomplishments for the soil
and water conservation district and also a couple of projects
were hoping to work on in the future and a little bit of
information about some legislation that involves all
of us. So we just recently spent our head our 75th
anniversary for the storm water board's that's a long time and
during that preparation I put together with other people a
display on the history of storm water from a personal
standpoint, but more from an ecological standpoint and how
things have changed over time in Seminole County because we
were once you know much more agricultural than we are today.
And I'd also like to give a special shout out to Bennett
late that you see a manager he was such a wonderful help and
and really enjoyed it. We had a cake social and we had so a
little bit of speeches and we're creating a video that we
intend to celebrate the 75th anniversary of the song water
board. And so it was a really nice opportunity and thank you
Seminole County for allowing us to have that opportunity at the
store at the history museum.
Also we did some I every cultural producers workshops
were trying to get to know who in the community is an
agricultural producer. A lot of are you know private and don't
necessarily want to you know get help from other people.
They're they're doing well, but the nrcs which is the natural
resources. Conservation service is with the federal government
which is the a Department of Agriculture and then in the
state of Florida. We have them. Florida Department of
Agriculture and both of those entities, our friends to the
farmers and they have funding sources to help the farmers to
improve their soil and water practices for conservation so
this year we had 2 workshops in the in the fall, one of the
workshops was about I told you a little bit about it was about
poisonous plants that grow in pastures in yards and that can
be harmful to animals as well as you know, you're what
livestock as well as you know people and then the other
workshop we had was on pasture management and how to improve
your your pastors and we talked a little bit about
fertilization and we partnered with the the U.S. Isis
extension service and we had the agricultural agents out to
talk to the community and we had around 20 to 24. Different
people come in we serve lunch and it was it was a very nice
day and I did that the nrcs agent got several contracts
which was much more contracts that we've had in Summit County
to the floor to get money out to help improve a water
conservation to help livestock. Water broader ring because a
lot of the livestock, you know from many they drink out of the
rivers lakes and streams and so this is where it some more
oriented than up to the House getting drinks out of that.
And also we also have they are working on the private well
owners program so private well owners don't afford the same
protections as the people who have utilities and so private
well owners have to you know monitor and test their own
Wells and that's something that may not be known by a lot of
the private well owners they may think they have a water
softener something on and that will help them will turn out
harmful things in their water. One of the programs is is we're
starting to me that is there's been septic and well as our co
located next to one another and so when you're you're well
absent gets a crack in the casing or something the
bacteria from the septic tank, you can see been and can cause
harmful health issues for people and so on I've been
working with UF ifas and we are going to be doing 30 water
quality tests or more depending on the community but we spoke
at the Geneva Association group and we have some people who are
going to I catch the water samples bring him into the the
office there and then we're going to come up and monitor
and then go back and privately talk to the people about the
results so it's a more private situation so you know it's not
out there and then see how we can help people with that and
so any other private well owners in Seminole County who
are interested in getting their Wells tested or just kind of
pre pre tested for bacteria issues and talking about some
other components can get in contact was near other song
water board members. Also we are working on a soil and water
symposium. I was trying to do the state of the water address
and that seems quite complicated so back and work
guy I suppose in what we've got to do is survey Ed Cowan which
is the group of all of the elected officials in the in the
county and now we're going to
I'm finding out what some of them localized issues are and
then trying to get better communication between all of us
and it is one water so we'd like to work on it as one
instead of all individuals in that respect in our silos also
working on the environment on which is a regional high school
competition for students who care about we're learning about
the environment they take a p** environmental classes and in
high school and so we're doing a regional approach and I'm so
excited. We got the Disney wilderness preserve and the
Nature Conservancy to to support us on this and have the
event there so we have Osceola County a Seminole County Orange
County students participating and we have some sponsorship
for that so it's going to be a really great day in February
where all the students come together and Saturday at the
Disney wilderness preserve which is 14,000 acres of land
that was set aside for the river of protection and it was
old agricultural area before. But this after it was nature
hate became agriculture area. And so that was also to offset
the impacts for the construction of celebration.
The development that you all probably have been down to.
Also we're going to have a public service announcement a
contest a digital one since young people are so good with
public and social media we want them to to you know we have
different messages about conservation about soils and
about water and different things that young people and
try to spread the word that way in and have more knowledge out
there. And we also are going to get about conservation awards
and part of the awards we want to do is we would like to honor
all of you for your contributions to protecting our
our soil and water and also we're going to name a
conservation agricultural person of the year and we're
going to try to continue on that and rcs agent did that in
his previous job in Colorado, it was very a wonderful way to
get people together and to share positive things.
Also we're looking towards working on some of the lakes
management issues in the urban as well as the rural areas and
Seminole County and you all have that wonderful and must be
you program for lakes management so we'd like to help
promote that and get that word out and you guys do a great
job, but you know we could always you can always try to
help.
So those are kind of the things that we're working on what
we've done. And so slip down to the legislation so
unfortunately, Seminole County city of Sanford Lake Mary
had the one for diack seen issue. You know with the land
and how that all came out and so they're going to legislators
that have put sort of bills in the Senate Linda Stewart,
a mandate Senate bill 1546 and then our own a racial playing
again House bill 1533 and so both of those eared legislative
programs and what they want to do is to help the municipal
governments who have the
utilities to do monitoring and testing and so they're putting
in it there's going to be a mandatory for not mandatory but
a testing by 1/1/2025 that all municipal utilities will test
for 1, 4, dioxane and then after that it's found there's a
ton of the 2 development mitigation plan to help figure
out how to reduce that to the health levels that are okay for
for most people. And so those are to 2 bills we pass then
unfortunately, there's one that's kind of sad and it's
about the storm water board's and what they'd like to do is
create appointments instead of elected officials for the song
water boards and that Senate bill 7 runs 7, 7, to 10 that's
from a senator Collins and then House bill 1075. From true now
and so they want to make it so that the storm water boards
will no longer be elected. They will be appointed by the
commissioner of agriculture and so on we're working on that and
so far I'll be back up and calling all the soil and water
board's around the state different members and they
they're not.
Of course, you know it favor of this so. We also are looking
for volunteers. So that's the end of the legislative report,
there's other issues kind of won but we'll get there and the
other thing is we're looking for volunteers to help we want
to do a kind of outreach for nutrient pollution about
fertilizers and about the use of fertilizers and soil testing
is really the best way to know if you need to apply fertilizer
or not so we're trying to encourage people were going to
go door to door in some areas were targeting specific
watersheds that we know there there's problems and you know
go out and have a friendly conversation and asked them if
they'd like to have the soil sample and then go back in and
talk to them about that. So Intel. July our next report,
I'll take any questions we also would we really be happy to
have some more support you guys have been really great this
past year in supporting the song water board with all kinds
of projects and so we hope that that we could get the use of
the extension office uproar office perhaps somewhere and
the county and use of maybe the copy machines and things for
some of our outreach and education.
>> Programs to great. Thank you Gabrielle and we sincerely
appreciate come given us, there's updates very
informative. I think it would be helpful if you could share
all those dates of the event you imagine with all of our
offices and with with our senior staff so we can make
that as well put that out, you know our social media.
Feed so the general public so all start again at the foreign
for any questions comments commissioner Lockhart it was
just can say it's great to has to come first to make the 2
presentations Gabriel, thank you very much.
>> Gary, thank you very much.
I was under the impression that we had a space already worked
out.
>> We should we have a space and our and environmental
services office for the so if you we can connect with you to
make sure you you know what that is.
>> Great yes, I miss or bird, she's back there yesterday
today happy baha I have heard
>> all kinds of fantastic opportunities to collaborate
and I'm a and just continue to keep us posted on the specific
things that you need from us or organization and certainly
daryn is a great resource and helping to support you and
directly to staff so thank you.
>> Commissioner, dallari Mister chairman just under 8 to well
John presentation lot of great information. I'm glad that we
have the space worked out. So that's not very difficult to
speak with a better just keeps more informed. It's great that
they can you guys are doing a great job.
>> Mister, a couple of things we're so glad you're here,
I'm just the progress that we've made with you in the seat
has been remarkable and and I'm appreciative if you if you need
help in this building you can sit in my office, anytime you
want to send my office. We don't have copiers but we have
a printer and then I would also say that if we can help in the
district 5 area because it is a great land of opportunity with
regard to what you do not only in terms of the volume of water
but the fertilizer.
With let's connect to the homeowners associations I would
be happy to do that
was just teed up the wildlife peace so we could tee that up
next through the homeowners Association's so I'm very very
happy to do that but we we appreciate you thank you.
>> Again, thank you very much, I would like lunch once you
work through whatever testing is being done in my district on
the well and septic concerns that are there because I'm not
aware of any. If you would share those of my office I'd be
very grateful. So we can do whatever we can we need to do
to try to help stop human health is very important
willing and my district, you know a lot of homes or over
homesteads that were agriculture one major.
When
rhule's today which dictate how many feet, a septic tank has to
be from a well it's not always what happened to 4050 60 years
ago. Sometimes are a lot closer than they should be. So if you
would share that with my office I sincerely appreciate again,
thank you very much for being here and thank you for the
opportunity to have a great day.
Alright next our consent agenda.
Asked the county attorney to read the rules for public
participation.
>> Thank you Mister chairman and good morning Florida law
provides that members of the public should be given a
reasonable opportunity to be heard on propositions before
the Board of County commissioners except when the
board is acting on emergency or Ministerio matters or
conducting a meeting exempt from the requirements of the
sunshine law,
individuals shall be permitted 3 minutes each for public
participation or 6 minutes, one individual as an official
representative of a formal Association, a group.
The chairman may modify the maximum time for public
participation at his sole discretion when appropriate
public participation on quasi judicial or other public
hearing items will occur during the board's consideration of
those items this afternoon,
public participation on pending procurement matters are on non
agenda items shall not be permitted at this time.
Members of the public desire to make public comment must fill
out a speaker form and present the from the staff forms are
available in the lobby.
Thank you miss story.
Mister County manager any updates.
We had a consent agenda.
>> Thank you. Mister chairman and commissioners just one
change and that's item number 12 under the county man is
consent
agenda that I am going to pull that and bring that back.
Thanks all the change pulling 12.
Commissioners we then have
>> items 3 through 17 less
12 anybody have no desire to pull anything.
Commissioner, Lockhart I'd like to pull 10 for clarification
for that and for
discussion
anyone else.
>> Mister chairman approved a move to approve items 3 through
1013 through 17 on the consent agenda said.
>> Motion second. We have anybody here in the public that
wishes to speak on any of these items, no Sir.
We have a motion a second.
All those in favor. Aye. Those likes and those opposed
seeing none passes unanimously.
Commissioner Lockhart I saw you.
>> I have never 10 and I think I also see Mister kunia I'm
trying to do some type of sign language so maybe want to just
figure out what that might be about.
Mister Harris. Thank you so much for bringing this to us.
I I remember many years ago when this you and miss ager and
some other individuals in our community came together to make
his first pitch to the county Commission may be almost 20
years ago that yeah
could you talk a little bit about the progression of the
trap neuter vaccinate release program and our County and
I see that in exhibit a.
This is the this proposal is from Spain save for this dollar
amount and that includes the ivermectin injection
and the air tipping but I'm seeing of the honest with you a
lot on social media and we actually have someone here last
meeting from Volusia County telling us that we aren't doing
enough for we aren't doing it correctly. So it does this need
to be different does do we need to what is your opinion on on
this particular item and how it impacts the
what other people's perceptions seemed to be sure sure.
>> I'm going after the sea level so we can work with.
Alan Harris director of the Office of Management services.
>> We have made progress and the we call community cats now
lot feral cats all right so.
>> That's okay haha haha large might have the hard way too.
So T community cat program. I would give up they don't want
to work for all and I understand why so the community
catcher caps that are taken care of by individuals
are fed. They are looked at. They do provide and assistance
in controlling. The cat population. Cash, all are a
good around the community around the neighborhood.
It's because of course they get ready for rodents and things
like that.
So we did not have a TV our program till about 2 years ago
and you all,
and we appreciated changed our ordinance to allow for a TV our
program since then we've been working with a pet alliance,
us pay and save
an organization of volunteers that have developed a 5,
1, to 3 a Seminole County TN Dr. To assist us and has cut
cast come into the shelter, we call those volunteers
and we will take the cats often to span say spanned save does
the the spay neuter at the tip of the year for us and then the
volunteers placed them back to where it's really important
that we place them back where the community can kids ours are
that they care takers are we don't just throw a cat back in
the neighborhood.
And I say we the volunteers don't throw kept back in the
neighborhood because that cap may not be careful. We want to
make sure that if we place a cat back into a community that
or to a colony that it's it's care for its monitored its
watch things like that. So we rely 1, 1, 100% on volunteers
to do that we simply do not have the staff to
to to return every cat to the come the community.
Do we do enough.
I think we've made incredible steps.
What are their future steps are probably our future steps.
This was always going to be a phased approach when we brought
it to the animal control board we have our additional meetings
2 and a half years ago we were talking about this being a
process and this is a step.
This provides assistance now they get grants as well TV are
organizations and things like that great get grants that this
provides some assistance to those individuals. We pay for a
portion of the spay-neuter we we haven't gone to the full
level and the full level is your Orange County to build a
7 million dollars has spay and neuter clinic.
We said we simply just don't know and can't do that we can.
There are other critical critical needs at the shelter.
There's also being faced Edward that this this year we're
putting in the work I want to go into all of things that
we're doing the greats in the new the new Kennel cages and we
just built a cadieux and you know so we're doing a lot of
things that the shelter so everything has to be phased in
is you know the federal government wants to give us a
100 million dollars I we can do some incredible things
that has faced. I think we're working in the right direction,
okay.
>> So since this recommendation this proposal is from spanned
say for this dollar amount. It is this something that is
negotiated did we do need to so did she ask for something or
and this is what we negotiated down to that we are getting out
what they asked for a while.
>> For the entire us ban say the expanded or so we
negotiated with that okay this is a part. So our volunteers
because they get grants need to come with a portion and we came
with the other portion so.
>> Do you recall what the total original amount requested was
said about a 55 to 60 per animal okay.
Because when when we have people come and say you're not
doing enough, I don't know what the balance of enough is that
now we do so that's super helpful.
And how many other organizations do we have this
agreement West. Forest and say the only one they say this is
the one that does as for the tmdl program. So that's the
only one that report are there other organizations who have
attempted to work with us and we have declined to know.
>> No everyone a station that has approached us were
incredibly good even though there are there is that out
there. We are incredibly good about developing partnerships
we work with Caskey end we work with a span neuter nation.
They come in get animals all the time from us just came and
got a whole bunch of dogs and a cat from us had alliance,
an amazing partner with us just did a nice media event with us
partnering with us. We lost a partnership Seminole state
College system developed are catty oh and the process of
developing our new indoor County. So yeah for TN VR yes,
there know all those organizations utmb are spans 2
expanded our nation cast can.
And once okay, but.
>> Have they asked to partner with us on their tnd our
programs and they do part.
>> With us for different. That's so some of them provide
the volunteers that go out into it. Take the animals to the
shelter, some of them work with the cat community kept their
caregivers there's a lot of aspects of the program is not
just this span is the other part is so there's the
trapping. But there's hahaha I get that cmdr of standards are
different.
>> But it will be some of us let me be more specific so the
only group that asked to park are with us and the neutering
and spaying piece of that he and VR is banned say that's
great. There's no one else it's asked to do that we told them
now know that we have said no to know what that was because I
was asked a question and correctly so my okay, thank
you, I'm good.
>> Thank you anyone else have anything on this.
Allen, thank you very much keep up the good work, you're people
or doing the great work of volunteers were so grateful to
have them on board and thank you so very much. Look for a
motion for the board's motion to approve item number 10 has
presented a second.
Motion is seconded any further discussion all those in favor
aye opposed like sign saying none carries unanimous and have
a housekeeping I would ask reconsideration and the
original consent vote, I'm told that we overlook one item in
the motion.
So I will ask for the motion.
Fast for reconsideration of the motion and the seconder 11.
Mister chair since I was in the affirmative I will ask for
reconsideration consideration agree to
could we do to you know all the considerations and even someone
named number 11. To approve item number 11. We don't want
to belittle reconsideration first reconsideration any any
further comment on reconsideration seeing none I
was in favor, aye opposed like sign seen an unanimous now look
for that motion to approve item number 11 is presented second.
All those in favor aye opposed like sign seen on
item 11
was approved unanimously and I think that's why he was back
there.
>> Which but I did yeah giving the landing site we thought it
was a touchdown.
>> A lot is trying to say all doing a great job to keep
>> was.
It was.
>> Apparently I shouldn't make these motions anymore let me
just call that. J we miss. So yeah.
>> So.
>> That's right I would say the cleanest way to do this it was.
12 in the lead for good.
All good men apart. Thank you very much for for your
heightened awareness.
Alright, next we'll move to our with your agenda.
This is a consideration of requests reduce a code
enforcement special magistrate, lean lives Parker's will be
presenting from planning and development
has Parkhurst
let's Parkhurst planning division
item 18 history quest from abroad,
Mohammed per property owner for reduction of the code
enforcement me,
the property located at 3451 dog court Lake Mary
case number 18 dash 23 dash the esm
on 11/8/2018, the property owner was found to be in
violation.
The Seminole County coach after 40 pending se section one oh
5.1 construction without the required permits for the
interior alteration of the garage into living space.
The code enforcement special magistrate issued an order
listing the compliance date of 1/10/2019
with a fine of $50 per day of the violations were not correct
it.
On 3/14/2019 after an affidavit in non-compliance was filed by
the building inspector the special magistrate issued an
order imposing a laying in the amount of $3,150 for 63 days of
noncompliance with find continuing to her.
On July 8th, 2022 the property was sold to talk investment
homes. LLC later a quit claim deed was recorded transferring
ownership of the property to a lot about covid the current
property owner.
The inspector filed an affidavit of compliance on June
2323 2023 after the application applicant obtained the permits
to cover the cited violations. The Lee total amounts was
$84,300 for 1686 2 days of noncompliance due to the cost
incurred to renew revise their issued permits and to complete
the of the work. The applicant is requesting the reduction of
the Lee the permit is still current and as the work has not
been completed and approved.
Staff recommends that the board of County commissioners denied
the request to reduce the lane and the amount of 84,300 to
$4,000 for the code enforcement special magistrate leaving for
case number 18 dash 23 dash the esm on the property located at
3, 4, 5, 1, to dawn Porter Lake Mary and by all that
Mama and authorize the chairman to execute the release of land
wants all fees are paid.
It is within the board's discretion to consider Mister
Muhammad settlement offer since he bought the property into
compliance that completes my presentation. Thank you miss
Parker's to any questions for staff this point commissioner
Lockhart.
>> Just to clarify, Liz, you said that there are open
permits. Yes, he's still working on completing the work
we had open up some areas for the inspection to be done so
the so the work is still ongoing.
Any other questions.
>> Is there anyone here to speak on behalf of this is the
applicant president wish to speak Sir please come forward
thank you Mister Parkhurst please state your name and
address for the record. We'll have 3 minutes.
>> Good morning. Thank you guys for hearing me out.
My name is Ahmad Mohammed so get over a sickness.
So I bought this property is 2022.
Well, I talked to
and you know we've done this multiple times do we buy
property with code enforcement liens and I'll talk to the city
first before making a purchase to make sure we can reduce
those fees so I spoke to pass she said that you know we will
be able to reduce those fees and then
back in November we had set a date for October the hearing.
She has something happened where she ended up quitting and
my paperwork kind of got thrown in the loop with everything so
then we set a new hearing date for December and I got sent the
wrong date so I couldn't make it to the hearing unfortunately
because of the wrong guy that was sent to me
and I've been basically a public fight with the city for
over a year and a half now. I received a lot of false
information from permits you know we've close inspections
and they reopened the inspections and not just going
back and forth for a long time not trying to get everything
worked out for you guys and I would just like to note that
this property has been vacant for a long time. No taxes I
think going to the county for a very long time and I'm looking
to pay about 9 or $10,000 in taxes just this year to you
guys. Also added a 12 month fixing foot blown so that ended
up with cheering and had to extend it twice because of Dole
confusion. So that cost me either $12,000 to extend in
quite frankly, I'm I'm I'm running out of money, I have 2
more money to finish projects. So that's kind of like what I'm
dealing with I know it's him out 95% complete with the
project at this moment, I'm looking to get the final
permits closed out within the next couple weeks working with
the Randy I'm very diligently to get all the permits close
out as well.
So you know, I'm not asking to completely waive the fees but
I'm asking for a little bit of help here as being a young guy
and I just quite frankly just don't have enough money to pay
sleeves off a $4,000 considering I'm not the one who
acquired them and I'm trying my best to get the property in
compliance with guy is so I can continue paying taxes and you
know get the property up to code essentially.
>> Thank you Sir we appreciate it very much course, anybody
have any questions for this individual to structure because
I do have one.
She say bought this property obviously correct. You are
aware that there were flames on this property, so I wasn't I
wasn't and before we made the purchase I came and spoke to
pass use
and she assured me that we will be able to reduce the liens one
side of the ball up to compliance.
So that she is sure you would be able to reduce it or you
could apply
to request to have them or they're still she showed me
that I would be able to reduce it and checks out
did she have that writing to you.
>> No.
>> But you know I've done this before with the city of Sanford
City Council barriers that so I just I didn't think anything of
it when she saw me I just assume that the same concept
this is the city's. I just want to understand that
commissioner.
>> Trying to collect the money from you now.
>> I'm not too sure, but I can't refinance the property
unless it satisfy the liens so I basically had to do another
12 month bridge loan, which I'm about to close on this we just
see myself getting foreclosed on so and today, you know a
bunch of fees do not as well. Bunch of points and stuff like
that on this wasn't a lot of money essentially.
>> So the so you qualified for the bridge loan and it's in
place of 12 runs to bring it to a 100% completion from 95%
completion Crest now have another 12 months. And how long
do you anticipate it to take you to bring it to completion.
So I'm thinking by the end of January should be done in all
pretty much closed at which point it will hit the market.
>> I'm not necessarily because and I just got this bridge
loan. So my plans are to refinance it in 12 months over
the rates will drop I know which was have 3 raindrops this
year so I'm looking to refinance that and then hold a
long term.
6 o K.
>> So that's I I will tell you that I am I
it confused when you do when you want to Sanford and had
they waived fees to they just do it categorically by one
staff member in the organization.
>> Yes, so it wasn't completely waves so for example, the city
of Sanford at one property that are just it was condemned by
the city,
run up to code for them and then I think the liens are like
a 120,000 they brought it down to 5,000.
And you didn't come before a board, you know I just filled
out a form and hand it paid the 5,000 that was pretty much it.
>> And you brought this as an investment opportunity correct.
Yeah, OK so this is a business transaction. Yes, and yes,
you did no research into the process that happens in this
county in this jurisdiction side speaking about now.
>> With further questions thank you. I do have a question for
staff real quick.
So you could just have a seat there if you weren't able to
call you back up, thank you very much.
Tell me why the staff
is not
supporting this.
That's that's the section that we have for the request for
reduction caress he purchased it with the lean in place.
That's that's why I ask the question, OK and and Mister
Pikes not here now seen buddy from his heart.
I know because the weather concern they're trying to get a
lot of things done today. Do we have any understanding I
hear these permits are opened or closed are ongoing.
Has there been a substantial.
Benefit to the property since this individuals taking over as
far as cleaning everything up and getting a move forward.
>> He has got several inspections completed. OK so he
is working towards the compliance, OK, I'm the chief
building inspector has been working with him, it's found
some issues church so they had over the next reduced.
>> I just want to make sure I fully understood why the
staff's not support it and I don't necessarily disagree with
you by the way. So I just want to make sure that I understood
what your position was a staff level so thank you very much
the other questions for staff.
>> Commissioner Lockhart so I have a question for actually
Rebecca panic.
When and I understand that staff member is is no longer
here. But when when people come in and they request, and they
inquire about this process do we have something in writing
that we can hand them that talks about our process of that
in the future we don't have it just being a word of mouth
interaction is that.
>> We do we have an application and we can also print out the
code section that says what the Board of County commissioner
considers in a mean reduction or waiver request. So those
things can be provided. I can't speak to what Pat me of
conveyed she may have said that it's ultimately up to the Board
of County commissioners. I'm just really want and favor
of the Board of County commissioners. However, she may
have indicated and I'm speculating here that the board
may take things into consideration such as the fact
that he has bought the property into compliance. He wasn't the
original owner who had the violation 80's has spent his
own money to bring into compliance and put it back on
the tax rolls and bring it into you know productive property
night.
>> And I understand that there's you know going in with
full knowledge and then the assumption that something may
happen and I get that but it is to the $4,000 is the applicants
requested reduction that was not just after coach M*** right
so that is so did we come back and say no, but we would
support this or are you just saying no not at all it's for
he's at 4,000 were 84,000 there's no middle ground is
that what I'm understanding.
>> So the staff is recommending denial just based on the
criteria within the code, he's offering settlement out I'm not
the 4,000 which is more than a Ministry of costs. So if the
board is inclined to you know, entertain a settlement offer
some staff that's acceptable to staff as well.
>> And from a legal perspective if the board wanted to choose
something less than 84 and higher than for could the court
do that
I'm not saying that there's been interest in that here,
I'm just asking if that is something that would be
allowable yes because the lien runs in favor of the board it's
up to the board what to do believe that.
Thank you very much.
>> Commissioner dallari then commissioner
thank you Mister chairman. Rebecca case to the flu.
Kate tell us why the applicant to qualify and the staff.
>> Yes so it technically, the request is not complying with
the criteria within the code, what is that correct which is
that he was aware of the lien prior to purchase and the code
states that should be negotiated with the purchase
price. We touch only reason why correct.
Commissioner,
>> yeah, I are weighing in as the district commissioner at
this property has been a problem for a very long time in
in the neighborhood it has been paired the sale value for our
neighbors that have some liquidated between the time
that it started and now our staff has been out there
multiple times a prior to you acquiring it fully appreciate
that
the danger to this situation in my from my perspective is that
this was an investment made by to investors since the property
became impaired and when you make a business decision to
invest in a property you go into it with eyes wide open
there was a lien placed on it for very good reason. And that
means carries with the property to make an assumption based on
clerical level individuals comment that you can get this
wave is a bad business decision and I don't think that the
taxpayers in this community are responsible for bad business
decisions. So I will uphold and make a motion that we do deny
the request for reduction of the code enforcement.
We have a motion to have a second
will make a second.
>> All in favor, aye oppose like sign. Seeing none
passed unanimous.
Thank you all very much appreciate it.
Next item up is the wekiva Island pay now in spring fling
special event permit.
We have Mary Robinson from planned development.
Well, no we don't.
>> We have her back. Plane married today. So for the
record of economic development services director item 19 on
your agenda is a request for a special event permit for the
recount Island paint out in spring playing 2024, located at
1014 Miami Springs drive.
The wekiva high on paint out in spring fling special event will
include a variety of artists related events performances at
the event will include live bands and various artists
painting outside with their artwork exhibit in our gallery
in offered for sale
and provide sound is planned for the art auction. On March
1st and will be held under the solar array.
On March 4th the quick draw will be held in the afternoon
and beginning at 06:00PM there will be again a gala for the
artists along with a live band performing on the back deck of
the classroom building.
The applicant recently had discussions with the Sweetwater
Springs, homeowners Association regarding the days and
operating hours for the special event as a result, the
applicant has amended their application to reduce the event
by 5 days, the dates of them unaided on March 3rd to March
7th.
The application for the special event is now 17 days instead of
22 days.
The schedule dates for the event.
Sunday February 25th through Thursday March, 21st except for
March, 3rd to 9th and March 15th March 16th.
The operating hours for the special event for Sunday
through Thursday 08:00AM to 09:00PM and Fridays and
Saturdays 08:00AM to 11:00PM which is consistent with their
existing development order. The number of guests, 395 for
the event which is also consistent with the maximum
occupancy in their development order for Island.
With that staff requests that the board of County
commissioners approved the private Island paint out in
spring fling on Sunday 2/25/2024 through Thursday
March, 21st 2024 with the exception of the following
days. March, 3rd 2, 9,
In March, 1516 which will have noticed the normal business
operations that concludes my presentation, I'd be happy to
take questions. Thank you miss hammock any questions for
staff.
>> Seeing none the applicant and this one all guy see you're
here do you wish to make any statements.
>> Mary's one out of 30 for 53 peace Valley way no but yes,
some of her days are out of the auction is Wednesday February
28th.
So they'll be if I sound under the solar array that day and
then the gala Saturday night the second.
So those are the 2 amplified sound.
>> Any questions for this one off
seeing none all right madam clerk do we have any speaker
forms.
>> We have one just a month.
>> No xprize Mister staver good to see you happy New Year
please come down.
Good to see you Sir, good morning, everybody. Just a
month or 6, 6, died water Crest drive Longwood Florida
community H.O.A. president yes that we all have it memorized
haha yes we do yeah. Well the good news is that I'm hearing
about the session. I'm here in support as you guys for last
year with covid agreement if they don't that's raising
incremental for that one opposed it,
and they did just that it is not a couple of all to say that
the U haul flights last year saying okay so we're here to
ask for your support of the
and to make us really different from the past. I'm going to
publicly compliment because of Island which I don't think any
member of a plane communities ever done in public before but
during the last of that they have a it myself when I started
getting calls and I texted very plane on and she immediately
respond to that and immediately took proactive steps to address
our concerns
that's not something that probably would have been 3
years ago and when the public like the ocean and and told her
be appreciated.
Her efforts to work together to get that person.
With that said there's 20 years of that was that it is paid
over night. Residents that a tidy of us have any agreement
they don't they should be inconvenienced night any type
of special, but as you heard even when the lease to respect
the rules in this last one.
Some of my residents are still a bit of a shame.
Worst possession and it has and will continue to be that yeah,
it's not perfect. But it's far better than the whole situation
we had 2 years ago when to continue to abide by this.
This agreement assuming that they continue to do in the
future.
But I think you folks because you have been participants nest
and building parts. Years I'm sure that those sites include
have caused frustration for all of your more than a few
patients but to see where the guys that got us to a a good
place to place presence of a place we can live with that
that would happen without your help and we appreciate it thank
you.
>> Thank you. Mister steyer I'm delighted to hear that we can
get everybody coexist bumper stickers and fly around the
neighborhood over there may be thank you very much.
Any any other individuals and desire to speak today on this
matter
seeing none I want to move this to commissioner Constance says
his district I do have one comment why Mister stay are
still here.
Yeah see with the statement you made many of us have been here
for a period of time when this
discussion is gone and the neighborhood against the the
folks that wekiva Island
but I got to tell you.
I had the occasion to visit the wonder what winter wonderland
over there this past holiday season.
The street was literally blocked with cars.
I want to hear residents
on the roadway along the speed tables that you could barely
get by.
I bring that up only to say
we all understand there's going to be holiday parties are going
to be these events and so forth and I think
and whoa
that this newfound affinity for each other cooperate with each
other continues.
But I find it sometimes self-serving
when we have a private resident who does some of the things
that the private residents are coming in complaining the
wekiva Island we did years ago, although the albeit they don't
do that anymore parking cars along wekiva Springs Boulevard
there.
So just want to point that out that you know there's going to
be times.
It's not always what kind of Island or the business entity.
So we just want to point that out to everyone
with that said commissioner Constantine your district.
>> And I'll get back to the combine. Yeah, thank you very
much both of you for working together it's wonderful when
people work it out themselves and as part of a development
order.
That is exactly what's supposed to happen and so
congratulations to both sides and it's just wonderful to see
that you know that you can you can coexist and
you know that we don't know whether that was on one side of
the street to the other and I'm not suggesting it but you know
just now that that Mister stay are actually called me over the
holidays to tell me.
Wekiva Island had reached out and work together with them.
And vice versa you know both Mary and Bill have you told me
how they get there there.
It is now wonderful to see both sides working together so with
that I will move approval of the special. Permit second.
>> Was motion second just just for clarification for what it
takes because there's a conflict in the dates it is
from make sure with dates for.
>> I think the conflict was just what was going to happen
on those states, not the actual event itself is that correct.
Okay, because the option, the option was already but the 28
was already part of it.
If I mean, obviously it's just very was making a unsolicited
advertisement about the auction of 28.
>> She was correcting the date said that to ask for and might
sound they are incorrect online speaking against so, she's
she's correct the we have the
option under the solar rays February 28. And then quit jazz
Saturday March, 2nd and then the gala with a live band is on
March, 2nd.
>> It's the reason why Mister chairman I would bring that to
our attention because there was a conflict in the days ago.
What was the team.
>> Thank you commissioner. It's work with this then there
is no amplified sound on this Sunday, the 25th 20 starts
thing, okay, so with that and with the new updated dates that
have been put into the record I will move approval of the
special permit.
>> Motion seconded Fuller discussion seeing none all
those in favor. Aye oppose like sign seeing none motion carries
unanimously thank you all very much and again, I'm so happy
you are getting along its fans hahahaha great stuff, Jeff good
to see you thanks for being here appreciate it very much.
We take a 10 minute break sure absolute let's take a 10 minute
break. Let's be back here at 2.
Yeah, whatever quarter after
a little more than 10, but sometimes we linger.
>> To
to to
>> too,
to.
>> The,
>> commissioner good to go to.
Next item up is a item 2023 dash 13 '05. It will be Charlie
Webster presenting our traffic into County traffic engineer,
the traffic calming update presentation work session.
Thank you very much Sir and you're ready to go.
For the record Charlie Watts County traffic engineer.
All right from the first this morning it's present a revised.
Traffic calming review and approval process and present
are revised criteria and recommendations for admin code
changes.
First we'll go over every background and they don't turn
it over to a fire chief Matt can lead to discuss the impact
of traffic calming to the fire Department we're going to
present to revise evaluation process and revision sort of
criteria and are requested actions for today.
So we came to the board in October of 20 20 and at that
time amended our code to improve traffic, calming
devices. These roundabouts joker's various items that may
be one.
That is the cheapest and most effective would be speed
cushions and at that time of the adopted city of Orlando's
design which has a gap in the middle to try and reduce the
impact too. Emergency vehicles. However, in twenty-twenty we
hadn't had the msp you admin code change necessary to move
forward with any projects.
So not happened and in between that time we learned about the
impact to cushions to the fire Department and their authority
over traffic, calming devices. So we came back to the board in
June of last year to give an update.
There was some
direction given to us to kind of re-evaluate we evaluate our
criteria and our process and the comeback with some changes
and that's why we're here today.
So now I'm going to turn it over to chief can win.
Good morning chief kenley.
Thank you for being here. Good morning and the record my
family for chief summit County Fire Department
and something new the family had to
works with.
So the Fire Department
>> was a thrust into this discussion through fire marshal
and myself looking at the fire prevention code, which is off
the dock about the state of Florida. Required us to be a
part of the process and obviously reviewing the impacts
to
first response times
just got a recap a review of the previous presentation for
those who may be watching that did not see it when we're
looking into these with the cushions specifically they
could be a 3 and a half to 10% for 10 2nd delay. For each one
that to our response times with its current design the traffic
engineering is proposing.
We're looking at it's taking the 3 have seconds with the cut
outs it really reduces how much we have to slow down.
Just to review of the the types of in fact when you look at the
stroke and cardiac arrest. Brain injury occurs in 2
minutes of brain death begins to her. 4 minutes.
Reduce survivability with in cardiac arrest for every minute
7 to 10% increase and 2 you're not going to survive. Fires are
looking at those that double with the fuels that are within
homes now it's not just the wood and paper everything's
plastic fire doubles every 30 seconds.
So we've been just quite a few. In our review requirements that
will be talked about that as we move forward.
The devices should be placed a primary response route for the
Fire Department traffic says should will not increase our
response time by one extra minute.
That travel time to greater than 5 minutes and I know that
I think that brought a little confusion with the last
presentation we're talking about that 5 minutes others,
many spots within the county. That are already at that 5
minutes so that would be an automatic disqualifier to add
extra time to that.
We're looking at the impact the roadways taking a holding up a
vote for lack of a better term. All those that would be
affected by the installation of these devices to a 50% plus one
vote. Just scenarios that you're talking about a hero
that's coming in the may have but half a dozen houses on it.
But now there's multiple subdivisions in the back with
another 600 homes. There's going to be an impact of those
homes. We would like for them to have a voice and that and
that decision making.
I will turn it back over Charles.
Case.
>> So based on the impact of the fire Department and their
recommendations as well as the comments we got from the board
back in June we've revised our evaluation process for all
speeding complaints and requests for traffic calming.
So a new process includes a phased approach.
So first look at not restrictive measures things
that don't physically slowdown vehicles such as signage radar
feedback signs striping stepped up to law enforcement so look
at those countermeasures first
before getting to the point of value waiting possible
restrictive measure such as traffic calming devices and
speed cushions if the issues still remain after our attempt
at trying to reduce speeds with non restrictive measures.
So when we receive a speeding complaint will feel verify that
the roadway has the adequate speed limit signs on it for law
enforcement to properly enforce the speed limit.
Then we'll schedule speed and buy a new study and the results
of this study will be shared with the residents in the
sheriff's office. This piece and indicates there's an issue
with speeds and this is the 85th percentile speed at least
5 miles an hour over the posted will first considered non
restrictive measures. These are education neighborhood meetings
stepped of law enforcement signing striping feedback
signs. I'm in the future connected vehicle and it S
other technologies that can be used to give the message of a
slowdown and reduce speeds so these are not restrictive
measures, we'll try first.
So will put something out there 60 days will come back
reevaluate to another speed study and see if it did
anything. If they're still an issue with speeds of at least 5
miles an hour. The 85th over the posted will consider any
additional the restrictive measures that there are any
that we haven't done yet and again do another speed study a
couple months.
So we if we have exhausted all are not under strict measures.
And we still have a speeding problem of the 85th percentile
being 8 miles an hour over the posted speed limit. At that
point we will start looking into restricted Messer such as
traffic calming.
And this 8 miles an hour and 5 I will explain a little bit how
we got to those numbers.
So if it is considered feasible for traffic calming more first
evaluate remotely of. It is an option obviously if it's going
to be 30 devices at 3 to have seconds each that's going to
throw out
that option because it would be more than a minute and added to
the fire Department's response. We'll look at that first only
and then go out in the field to kind of figure out where these
devices would go and come up with an estimated cost.
Within for that recommendation is for the Fire Department for
their review and doing analysis. If they don't deny
the request space and their criteria that chief kenley
discuss such as the primary route to one of the 5 minutes
threshold.
They will determine an area beyond the initial roadway
where
residents can be impacted by this reduce response time.
Letters will be developed with the findings from the fire
Department sent to these households and that's where we
look for a vote about will be sent to them they will be
looking for a simple majority, the 50% plus one
of all returned ballots. And we would look for this
before we proceed with the project and these results will
be shared with the residents and the board.
If approved an African still wishes to move forward with the
project will determine the funding source.
And just as an. This would apply to any existing streets
in streets we're not asking that developers putin traffic
calming as part of their development. It would have to
go through the same process you have to have a documented
problem and then trying to fix it.
So finding processed first when you try and see if Grant
funding was available.
We work with community services to install devices with that
funding
if it's not eligible for Grant funding will provide
information to the S P you staff to begin development and
communication related to creating an msbu
and just a reminder an msbu require 65% approval of the
roadway homeowners.
And we're proposing that each traffic calming project be
approved by the the board regardless of funding.
So here's the proposed proposed revisions to our criteria again
we dropped 10 miles an hour which we had before that was
thought to be too high. We dropped down 8 miles an hour.
Is kind of a magic number in the traffic engineering world
dot policy right now is that roads have to be the speed
limit has to be within 8 miles of the 85th observe speed.
So that's where 8 miles an hour came from.
Some of our other the proposed revisions were proposing taking
out the minimum volume on this on the roadway and also
reducing the maximum from 5,000 down to 3,000. And then this
would be well because they have a
their own policy on traffic, calming which is very similar
to what we're proposing we're trying to mend that dot these
guidance.
As a reminder, you know traffic calming is only for roads
posted 30 miles an hour or less.
And the approval of these devices would be 65%
suggesting removing item number 5 which talks about adjacent
neighborhoods and again this is would be done as part of the
Fire Department of you anyway.
I'm also proposing moving items 8.10 this was just a you know
again looking at specific road ways which we would do anyway
so it's kind of just clearing up the criteria make a little
simpler easier to read.
We also have this flexibility statement, you know our admin
code which allows the county traffic engineer and the county
engineer some flexibility in this criteria. If there are any
and is justified for the safety of the motorists of the
residents in doesn't impede the Fire Department.
So Rick requests we head through our roadways that that
the initial criteria before the Fire Department involvement,
this is East red bug Lake road Seminole Avenue wellingham
road.
So now we would
kind of not we would look through this process to see if
there's anything additional we would do. If if the residents
or the neighborhood is willing to look at any other non
restrictive measures, but we understand it's been a long
time.
In this process and but we wouldn't nice at least need to
go through the Fire Department involved in and do any polling
of adjacent neighborhoods if necessary.
A community services and msbu is working with the lack of
evidence this is the 18th and 20th Street areas in Sanford to
utilize brand findings again we would need to work through this
new process, especially the Fire Department involvement.
Just to know we did put out some driver feedback signs out
an 18th and 20th and will be evaluating there. Affecting
this and the next month or 2.
And there are several other roadways around the county.
Balmy Beach person very goalie for example that we had
requests for but we didn't move that through the process ship
because of our
going through that must be you and the Fire Department
involvement. So those would need to then go through this
whole new process.
So today, we're looking for the board to approve our new
traffic calming evaluation process which includes the Fire
Department criteria. And the board approved project
assuming you approve this new process traffic again welcome
back to the board and later date to update our admin code
to include these changes and msp you also need to come back
to the board a later date to update their code to allow
traffic calming devices as a fun double item.
And that's all I have and thank you Mister Wessel.
>> Any questions or inquiries by the board commissioner
commissioner Constantine we next commissioner dallari the
commissioner Lockhart.
>> Was so earlier in the presentation. There's a
reference to notifying impacted area who defines the impacted
area and I heard chief kenley mention this and how is it how
is it to find.
>> So what our gis analyst were able to link them to the
property appraiser everything that the county has access to
and we basically put what we call about a box around the
roadway. That would feed into these different areas were able
to look through our cad system of what the first unit is that
so responding and that's really what we're looking at is the
first unit that couldn't be in second or 3rd, but that because
much harder now says so we will for this found a box in and
were able to pull the owner addresses from that to provide
a traffic engineer to be able to mail out those ballots.
>> So I guess the answer to that question is the Fire
Department is determining the impacted area correct and do
you have
that process redrew bound to to be repeatable
identically yes okay now.
>> I will also say technology gets better or 8 are believed
to analyze gets better just in the last 30 days. We keep
getting better and better and better at it so we're going to
use what is the our best most efficient way of doing it at
the time.
>> Okay and then while k*** you're there because I think
this is probably for you as well I think that we tend to
live traffic, calming devices into one big category.
And I think the one that you have the most objection to in
terms of protecting the safety of the public is speed bumps of
any nature.
>> There's really 2. The the the cushions speed bumps all
the different than act was used for those and traffic circles
around about 6 of the Roundabout are terrible.
So yes.
>> We had that discussion I left it up when I but I said it
but so I I think we want to make sure that we get on the
record the notion that all of the other opportunities still
exist before it goes to this limitation and that our team is
ready willing able to look at all of those and implement all
of those first and I know you said it.
But we do have folks that are out there that have front with
this issue of speeding in their neighborhoods for very long
time they're already frustrated and the fact that we're now
doing this is going to create more frustrations. So I think
there are other ways I think striping does slow down cars
until they get used to it and and we need to be exploiting
every one of those opportunities to maintain the
safety.
Prior to a fire. So I I just wanted to point that out with
that I have nothing further.
>> And commissioner Constantine
thank you very much.
So chief I'll ask you this question, but it may be
directed.
To traffic engineer, but the question is that
who Institute 70 is does this come from staff does this come
from citizens can come from anybody the process to start.
This because
as we've said there are citizens the contact.
Myself in my district, I'm sure there's been others that said
we've got speeding, you know what about calming devices what
about speed bumps, you know that type of thing so how does
this begin who dust.
>> That typically comes a complaint from a resident,
ask us and we'll look into it do it like we kind of step
through make sure there's adequate signing to enforce the
speed limit and that will do a speed study and see where
really what's going on out there.
A lot of times. The perception of speeding people think there
is beating but there isn't so it's good to get some good data
of what people are actually doing out there and then from
there we'll kind of step 2 different faces to try and
control the speeding.
>> Where that if there is being it usually coming from the
neighborhood itself and therefore they get the tickets
and then they get upset. But the second quick can we do
it but but there is nothing to say that internally
we can't start the process, ourselves correctly and we can
be proactive we just subscribe to the a pro data service where
we have a map of the county and we can see probated travel
time, speeding
values across the county and we can we can filter this town to
see where the greatest amount of speeding is it almost gives
us a red yellow green map of
where speeding is mostly and so we can be proactive in trying
to address speeding issues.
Good and I just wanted to make this comment part of that I
think
earlier today we talked about what kind of Island did and you
know that the combined working together hard but I believe of
the fact that they are working together now
is because the speeding has been reduced partly because of
the calming device. So you know that there are positives to
this that we need to understand we instituted at ourselves that
was not something that came from the community we threw it
into the development order and it and end the violent pay for
it. And it has worked so I just wanted to make sure that it we
are not limiting ourselves in this process.
>> Commissioner Clark thank you, Mister chairman first of
all well done I think you all look at this
truly comprehensive and we all know that public safety is a
permit one of our primary concerns and I like the fact
that the
from which involved and talking about first responders I think
that's also just as important.
One thing that should be addressed or at least in the
beginning of this is should always refer back to vision 0
because that's primarily what were the talking about and we
adopted that
so I would like to see something that talks about
vision 0 a little bit
that no one gets hurt and then the other thing is that I don't
see any about rail crossings at all.
I think with their should be some additional concerns about
rail crossings. I don't have we haven't talked about that yet
because you're.
>> That's mostly leisure services and where they are
saying I think they came to the board. Several months ago with
their own plan of how they would address you know signage
and striping that prior to each crossing. We do try and have
are the rectangular rapid flashing beacons that age trail
crossing around the county. So there is a little different
a criteria for traffic control at crossings but I'm really I
think there manual kind of addressed.
>> So usually if you have trouble questions under control
when it comes to speeders and stuff.
That's what I'm hearing.
>> I think I think the the traffic control that we have
the crossings is adequate right now as far as speeding at them,
I'm.
I don't know proactively of where they were this being
occurs but you know, I said now with that nice offer weekend we
can see that but
you know is if people use these devices and people they the law
and yield to pedestrians and bicyclists crossing the.
The trail there shouldn't be speeding issue well then I'll
ask you can work with me and so yeah, shouldn't
>> commissioner we can actually least do the evaluation of what
every area that we're we're looking at we can we'll
definitely was at the address. Yes, the trail for us to
include that evaluation. It's not just to do just as
miners walking on the trail and that's what I'm concerned about
I got what that you know the sex scenes stop signs on some
locations
actually seen a location where to locate you actually have a a
actual traffic light, you know, there's something there right
on a major upcoming major road right and then the last thing
is if we get down to
only roads that are 30 miles or less will be cutting a lot of
roads that are going to be allowed to do this and
one at 35.
I'm asking the question.
>> This guidance from dot other agencies around the country 30
is kind of the adopted speed has to do with the
functionality of the road the volume things like that so that
this is mostly to combat speeding in residential.
>> The areas, but there are some that residential areas
that you can see that 35 mile an hour, a speed limits.
We have all these stop caps from the fire Department in
place and yourself, we'll see what we can evaluate about 35.
>> Some of these devices to are designed to go, you know going
over speed cushion that 35 yeah it's not appropriate so there's
different considerations there as well and that would be that
would rule it out then at that point but maybe something else
around about her job or some other device could work at 35
but but in the end you're all the engineers that's why be
looking at you, but I don't want to just alleviate all the
roads it 35 miles an hour. They still have to follow the
same criteria. But what you go to 30 it's going to alleviate a
lot of the roads that people do complain about.
>> I realize we had an order but I want to pick up where
commissioner dallari left off please do because you're
looking at me and I did I actually doing more to come
right to you name to get.
I think this will put us in the position where we have more
requests to lower the speed limit of 30. So that's a trend
that we have that battle routinely and live. I don't say
it out loud, you know like Markham road is the the one
that's been struggling with this since the beginning it is
a residential neighborhood. It is a collector road. It was
a trail on the commission. In this I get it so.
>> Because it was going to come to us that reduce my speed
limit from 35 to 30.
>> So it is a concern and that is that road is a candidate
probably for other calming devices. I
I am not opposed to it the way it is because it does say that
the traffic engineer has the opportunity to make a decision
at the end of the day. But we need to be really comfortable
that we're going to be making those decisions and we're not
going to come back to this and say, but we don't look at
anything over 30 so I think it's a
appoint that's really well taken.
>> And that's why suggestion at least if if it's 35 you have
all these other checks and balances that it may not
qualify.
It prohibits picking up 2 hits but he's got a lot of people
ask us to go from 35 to 32.
Commissioner Lockhart that's what.
>> So are you going to be bringing back an ordinance or a
a code language for us to adopt yes, okay, so some of the
refining could take place there's get ready coming up,
okay and
you have not been asked until today to review trail crossings
as a part of this have you yeah, okay, so I just want to
make sure that like I don't want anyone to think like you
are asked and then like you just overlooked that because
that's that's new and in my mind and I understand that's an
issue but in my mind I would not want to couple that with
this because I think this is just related to residential
roads. I didn't even see it as being something that would be
applicable to collector roads, but I understand the issue you
have with that particular road. But this isn't like Sammy was
intended for residential non collector neighborhood roads.
I think you've got a whole nother massive issues with
those roads that are 35 miles an hour more because you've got
a lot of heavy traffic it's a it's a conduit. It is a
collector road right. So I'm just I I don't want to start
piling a bunch of things on to this that either one is going
to slow it down. Because this is now 4 years in the making.
Longer for some folks who you know their their request one in
the drawer right, I know there's a huge backlog of these
requests and
you know, I've I've got neighborhoods in my district
where
you know people have started taking measures into their own
hands.
Because they're frustrated they do reach out to law enforcement
and the most recent thing, I'm seeing the feedback and we need
to check if someone could check with the sheriff's off from
office on this and I'm being told that they only have one
traffic enforcement traffic calming unit.
That's being deployed right now when calls are sent in and I
don't know if that's true or not I'm seeing had a lot but I
have to say I'm not going away gun with the thing on it.
Well for for someone on a motorcycle unit actually out
there with the gun not like bang bang gun, but radar gun to
to actually
you know have people feel like oh wow they really are going to
write me a ticket and I don't know enough about that process.
Anyone from the sheriff's office is watching me talk
about this I'm not disparaging I'm not casting aspersions I
really gently of want to understand what the actual.
Opportunities are out there what how deep is their well for
the enforcement piece of this because if that's going to be
one of the first layers that we would say you know before we go
to looking at speed tables have to have enforcement and all of
those things go first
are they equipped to handle the number of
requests the of this process that we're about to start down
for that enforcement peace and for some of actually be out
there with a radar gun.
That's one of my questions.
The thing I don't know how we do this and I feel like
everything goes back to communication and social media
and what we've got with keep putting a lot on that team.
But
if there's something that we can share with our
neighborhoods that seemed to have these chronic issues of
speeding and wear it.
If people even know like I know it's the kid and the red
Mustang and I know where his parents live and when he comes
to visit and Mikey like pitchforks and like people are
right so they start to get really upset and they want to 2
to you know it shaming and social media and in some way
shape or form and I I just I seed
I see things getting ugly between neighbors and some of
these neighborhoods where the speeding is occurring and so if
there's any way that we can start the process of having
people feel like they're it we are standings things to
actually occur to help solve the problem and not just
throwing more literal speed bumps. Figurative speed bumps
and their way.
I don't know what that looks like
identifying a problem without a solution which I hate doing it.
But that this piece of education is so important and I
know you've already said that, but I just
it got to go hand in hand because when when the when the
the counters from you know whatever those are when those
go out like the the nave typically and I know this
probably isn't something that you think
should be in your wheelhouse but when when one neighbor to
neighbor said complained about speeding and then all of a
sudden the things the boxes show up one day and then
they're gone and then there's a lot of question about well that
happened when school was out so you're didn't get an accurate
count by well that happened, you know the kid who drives a
red Mustang was away at college when he's home that's where the
problem is like right like there's that these neighbors
are paying super close attention and they know where
these issues are so if we can coordinate better with them on
the fun and that that might help us from having to go back
and do things multiple times and that's that's my only feel
that the correct I like awesome,
let's get going. Let's do it.
>> Commissioner dallari you have to be Frank. Thank you.
However, I'm not you know, I've been very vocal about this and
the 2020
work session and I think commissioner Lockhart and I
were involved 2018 we have this discussion because it has been
on quite frankly that ball.
So this is probably a question for the county attorney.
As well as the fire marshal where the fire chief I don't
see the fire marshal here.
So when you referred to as the Florida fire code 6.33.
That's actually Florida statutes, 6.33 is it not.
So the statute refers to
and FDA regulations or guidelines, correct to just
it does like many of it's like the UT in Florida they just
take the federal guidelines incorporated.
>> Given the Florida statute numbers basically the same time
so it's and the processes, yes, Florida, adopting a Pa code
through that statute in the county adopts the state statute
right men are okay.
>> So I just want to make sure that everybody is aware unclear
and I'll get on this little deeper,
and if Pa 1141 a as in Apple 5 dot to 0.18.
As the talks to speed calming devices basically says
coordinate with first responders and say you have to
doesn't say you must it says you should I'm not advocating
that's a bad thing I just want to make sure everybody's clear
what the coach says that is not the Fire Department that only
has the final say it's this morning. So make sure that's
clear on the record
secondly you all know I love my firefighters, I love all you
guys and gals
but of play, devil's advocate for just a minute
and I have done some substantial research on the
spot because I happen to drive not only high lift a big trucks
by drive very short to the ground sports cars.
There has been a great deal study done on state home speed
tables. The spacing the design by high-paid consultants all
across this country.
And when I go out and look at the some of those including
traffic circles, the delay time response for first response or
responders anywhere from 0
to 9 seconds.
Now we have to agree that what we're trying to control here is
human behavior
by putting something.
Cause is human behavior to change. Sometimes those are
success, we know the writing speeding tickets that's an
incentive to change human behavior. But first people to
get somebody that they lose their license. So at the end of
the day. What we should be looking at and what I'd like to
see our engineers look at
they're actually speed tables.
That are spaced as you're already introduced, but also
openings in wheelbase with it
for trucks such as we would utilize to allow that to pass
straight through we now do we think
speeders are going to try to use it to but it's only going
to catch one of their wheels.
But at the end of the day.
Our response time and I'll give you example, like in my
district.
You know chief with the roads my district that have holes
nature may could or did it for all of the many speeding off.
And so that's been a delay response so under that argument
that I would advocate what we need to fix all the roads to
make sure we don't have any delayed response because we
don't want to leave response.
But getting to the traffic circles.
Quite frankly if people knew how to go through a traffic
circle will be much quicker.
But then I sit out and I watch
from the time that
firefighting apparatus is dispatched, and gets on the
road and gets where they're going.
We all agree there's a lot of things that happen.
Cause delays including you know unfortunately, a firefighter
dropped something and had to pick up on its way walk into
the truck or whatever the case might be amiss I want to make
sure that we don't use this delay criteria
as the prominent reason to delay or not move forward on
behalf of the citizens to put that in place.
So those are my concerns.
I understand what everybody is saying, but I want everybody to
be treated equally.
But if we're going to start saying it's going to be some
majority waited on. First responders response time then
as a district 2 commissioner, I'm going to say I need on my
roads facts or first responders can get there in a timely
fashion without having to go through big Watson holes and
bombs and all that kind of stuff so it's a double edged
sword. I understand
we can work on this with staff.
I think we've given direction we all good with direction
we've given it will we'll circle back plea to us in our
offices to
filing massage, something common is that acceptable to
all
and just so you just understand the cushion.
>> That we have come up with has those cut outs right time
and that's why the the lower number on the delay that
what's your. Well I want to
>> expand a little bit on your point about the fire
Department's role and this because it it is prominent sure
exactly has pointed out that's right and and so I think with
the county manager will need to make sure that there's some
really strong
practices and understandings in place I think on slide 10 the
second bullet is is what did give me a little
because if the Fire Department does not deny the request
based on their initial criteria, they will determine
the area beyond the initial roadway, so
so they're in the implication is is that that's the choke.
And if they tonight than we do move forward and so I think to
commissioner zembower and kind of commissioners point
there needs to be another person to help guide. Beyond
that point maybe put that woman says that put that into the
process absolutely all right. Thank you.
>> The GS to address to you that was a direction you think
yes, yes, and what we'll do is move forward and vote. Visit
unity, senior officers about what we're bringing forward
just so everyone understands that and then we'll put it on a
future agenda.
And else for the good of the order for a break for lunch.
I'm assuming there's nobody here to speak about this,
I was to work session but we want to be
Democratic and our
process
seeing none we'll stay in Toronto, one 30.